Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
Is the AFF rating too easy?

 

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MakeItHappen

Jan 5, 2010, 7:41 AM
Post #426 of 447 (2050 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With all due respect, I 100% disagree with you.

I think that you misunderstood what I wrote. I have no problem with 'background' checks on someone's experience, but it has to be with the person's permission. We do this for bigways all the time, but it is with the person's consent, usually they provide the references too.

.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Jan 6, 2010, 11:42 PM
Post #427 of 447 (1895 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jan,
I probably did and I am sorry. I am much better at debate in person than on a public forum. I like to believe we have similar agendas when it comes to safety.


legalize1966  (D License)

Jan 8, 2010, 10:42 PM
Post #428 of 447 (1798 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's look at this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SECLPmkF3I

I see a few things that don't look right, this is someone elses tandem video, but look at the aff that goes just before the tandem. the students rig was not properly gear checked, look at the riser cover and the yellow steering toggle sticking out, then the instructor does not really have a good control over the student by not keeping his grip on the student, and he funnles the jump just as they go out of site. i also thought the aff instructor was supposed to check for clouds and spot


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jan 8, 2010, 11:13 PM
Post #429 of 447 (1794 views)
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Re: [legalize1966] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was going to say the following:

- use of copyrighted music probably without license
- tandem student's hair
- lots of negative comments to the student
- student didn't know their instructor
- AFF student's right riser cover undone
- unhooked lowers on tandem

most of which are a joke Wink


alabamaskydiver

Jan 9, 2010, 8:34 AM
Post #430 of 447 (1763 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was going to say the following:

- use of copyrighted music probably without license
- tandem student's hair
- lots of negative comments to the student
- student didn't know their instructor
- AFF student's right riser cover undone
- unhooked lowers on tandem

most of which are a joke Wink

What are you serious about then? (in the review of the video)

It just shows in that video that proffesionalism and ability where not how the rating was "earned".


Driver1  (D License)

Jan 9, 2010, 9:50 AM
Post #431 of 447 (1746 views)
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Re: [alabamaskydiver] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't help but to think of how long it took that guy to get righted from that funnel. That may have burnt up some altitude that could have been used for valuable student training. And what did happen to the gear check? That instructor had a lot of opportunity to catch that riser cover and toggle, I mean it was right there smiling and waving at him. geez!


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jan 9, 2010, 11:57 AM
Post #432 of 447 (1731 views)
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Re: [alabamaskydiver] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What are you serious about then? (in the review of the video)

It just shows in that video that proffesionalism and ability where not how the rating was "earned".
Well, I think the riser cover is problematic, otherwise, I wonder if anyone here has never had an exit go bad with a student? And copyright issues are a real problem, ask DSE.

Just because the instructor missed the riser cover & then had some issues on exit doesn't make them a poster child for how bad the AFF rating has become. It's easy to watch one video and extrapolate but that doesn't really seem fair to me.

The unhooked lowers on the tandem is a current discussion I believe so I'll leave that alone as I have NFI. As far as not meeting the tandem student, I doubt everyone gets a nice intro at a busy DZ before their tandem. The student didn't seem to have an issue with the camera person's jokes so who cares. The DZ might, the whole professionalism thing but it depends on the culture.

Then again, what do I know. I was tired & (am still) sick (and had a couple of Jamesons in me Tongue) so feeling a little punchy. My apologies.


1335smaj  (D 22231)

Jan 9, 2010, 8:33 PM
Post #433 of 447 (1667 views)
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Re: [Skymonkey2] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Kip,
You know my name. Itís Scott Mitten. Weíre friends. I donít always agree with you or appreciate everything you say or do. You make me angry as hell but Iíd certainly help you up if you were knocked down. Iím not the person who responded to your comments about a DZ in IN. Iím pretty certain Kim didnít either. I am the guy you are referring to in your comment, but Iím not the guy who replied as a result. You see, even here I donít mind divulging my name. You see my username. I donít have any others and I donít think Iíve ever posted here. If I have itís been a few years. Folks told me about this thread and I resisted reading it until today. Unfortunately I read every thread from beginning to end. I must admit work was boring (lucrative) but boring none the less. It has twisted and turned and Iím still not certain there is a problem. Iím ignorant I suppose, thatís ok. Ignorant is not a bad word when used in context and correctly. I digress. Anyway, we spoke that evening on the drop zone and came to seemingly agreeable conversation. Iím sorry people use this medium to jab at each other even when itís you and Iím not agreeing with you. It cheapens you and the things you want to accomplish. Youíve been on many great DZís. Hell Iíve jumped with you strapped to my chest in Raeford and Start Skydiving both. I trusted you to take my son on an AFF in Tecumseh when he was having trouble maintaining a heading. Thatís good stuff. I donít know why there is ugliness here. Your knowledge is very good, your skills are very good. People like to say they earned a rating from Kip Lohmiller. I have. Iíve earned a couple ratings with you as the I/E. One from Jim Moore, and one from Bram Clemmens. I liked all of the I/Eís Why did I use who I used when I used them? Location and proximity. You were in Raeford when I tried my hand at Vector/Sigma tandems, you were near when I needed a static line re-currency, Jim Moore was near by when I needed a Strong TI rating, and Bram was near by for an AFFI course. Whoís better?........me! Iím better for experiencing the difference in teaching styles, and meeting new people. I have a few more friends now and more diverse stories. Anyway, Iím rambling again. I did not (until now) reply to your post. I read Airage or airage2 whatevers post, I canít argue with his comments. I donít know who it is. I can guess. I know this for certain, you and I were there. Iím not particularly happy about how blogs or strings can shape information. But Ö..it happens.
I didnít write that. You took the liberty to tell Kim I did. Youíre wrong, I would have listed my name.
Please tell Linda Robin and I said hello.

Sincerely-
Your friend (still)
Scott Mitten


Driver1  (D License)

Jan 12, 2010, 10:33 AM
Post #434 of 447 (1535 views)
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Re: [legalize1966] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Let's look at this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SECLPmkF3I

I see a few things that don't look right, this is someone elses tandem video, but look at the aff that goes just before the tandem. the students rig was not properly gear checked, look at the riser cover and the yellow steering toggle sticking out, then the instructor does not really have a good control over the student by not keeping his grip on the student, and he funnles the jump just as they go out of site. i also thought the aff instructor was supposed to check for clouds and spot

After further review of that video, I have come to the conclusion that the AFF Instructor in that video is Jeff Fincher. One easy way to tell is the name "Cletus" on his helmet. He's the only one I have seen that has that. And when it shows the load boarding the aircraft, just for a split second, The person doing the video scans over and gets Fincher in the video wearing the same jumpsuit and has that ski-mask on his head. Where's his student at that point? Looks like about 30 ft. behind him in the blue jumpsuit. Almost looks like he intended of doing all of his teaching after the jump.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jan 12, 2010, 10:48 AM
Post #435 of 447 (1529 views)
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Re: [Driver1] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
After further review of that video, I have come to the conclusion that the AFF Instructor in that video is Jeff Fincher. One easy way to tell is the name "Cletus" on his helmet. He's the only one I have seen that has that. And when it shows the load boarding the aircraft, just for a split second, The person doing the video scans over and gets Fincher in the video wearing the same jumpsuit and has that ski-mask on his head. Where's his student at that point? Looks like about 30 ft. behind him in the blue jumpsuit.

Is this what you were referring to? Fincher's at the far left.
Attachments: boarding.jpg (76.5 KB)


Driver1  (D License)

Jan 12, 2010, 11:01 AM
Post #436 of 447 (1522 views)
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Re: [BillyVance] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Is this what you were referring to? Fincher's at the far left.

Exactly


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jan 12, 2010, 11:48 AM
Post #437 of 447 (1501 views)
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Re: [Driver1] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Is this what you were referring to? Fincher's at the far left.

Exactly

Are there any other videos out there showing Fincher doing questionable AFF jumps? I'm sure many instructors have had at least one bad AFF jump, hell, AFF students can be unpredictable at best. If it was just one time, that's understandable.

If there's a pattern.... well then there's a problem, but it's not for me to decide....


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Jan 12, 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #438 of 447 (1499 views)
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Re: [Driver1] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Is this what you were referring to? Fincher's at the far left.

Exactly

A little over exaggerated on the 30 feet. His student is like 5 feet from him. Not saying everything else is excusable but come on lets not have a lynching on DZ.com. The old saying Is believe half of what you see and nothing on what you hear. The video only shows part of a story guys.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Jan 14, 2010, 8:32 AM
Post #439 of 447 (1404 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

I will offer one thought: keeping the riser cover flap closed on a RTS rig requires and act of god. You can retuck it ten times and it will pop open like that every time. The design is horrible.


alabamaskydiver

Jan 15, 2010, 3:11 PM
Post #440 of 447 (1319 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Any news on the AFF Standardization meeting?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 15, 2010, 8:59 PM
Post #441 of 447 (1287 views)
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Re: [alabamaskydiver] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

It starts next Monday in San Diego. Not a whole lot of people attending.


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Jan 16, 2010, 7:26 AM
Post #442 of 447 (1254 views)
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Re: [DSE] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It starts next Monday in San Diego. Not a whole lot of people attending.
I thought it started Tuesday.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 16, 2010, 7:53 AM
Post #443 of 447 (1246 views)
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Re: [djmarvin] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It starts next Monday in San Diego. Not a whole lot of people attending.
I thought it started Tuesday.

The "welcome" dinner/mixer is on Monday evening, starting at 7.


alabamaskydiver

Jan 16, 2010, 10:50 AM
Post #444 of 447 (1234 views)
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Re: [DSE] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oops, had my dates mixed upBlush


alabamaskydiver

Jan 18, 2010, 11:02 AM
Post #445 of 447 (1081 views)
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Re: [DSE] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do any disciplinary actions come from these meetings or is that a BOD thing only?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 18, 2010, 11:42 AM
Post #446 of 447 (1070 views)
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Re: [alabamaskydiver] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Only the BOD is able to hold disciplinary actions.


Ron

Jan 25, 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #447 of 447 (920 views)
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Re: [DSE] Is the AFF rating too easy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
FWIW, a "conditional AFF rating" is for someone who is only allowed to jump reserve side.

Wow maybe the dumbest thing I have heard. What if the pair flips and now the "conditional only reserve side" guy is on the main side?

It is not like the AFF course is difficult.


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