Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Protective Helmets

 


MB38  (A 48618)

Jul 26, 2006, 12:10 AM
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Protective Helmets Can't Post

Spawned by the incident thread, it's time to think about using protective helmets for skydiving. Obviously this has been covered in great detail before, but it's a topic that wouldn't suffer from a little redundancy.

If all of the "helmet" posts from the incident thread get broken off into their own thread, merge or delete this one.

Anyways...


We all know that skydiving helmets just don't offer real protection. They'll save you from bumping your head on the door or getting a foot in your face but nothing more. They are designed for comfort, style, audible altimeters and cameras.

Here are a few links to consider. I'm sure that others will have more input.

The classic ProTec is the good 'ol standby. It's cheap and designed for protection. It's not the biggest, best helmet... and you won't win too many style points... but it works. Yee haw.

Oregon Aero makes upgraded padding to be used with various kinds of helmets... including the ProTec. Relevant to Skydiving is the upgrade for the Z1 or "any skydiving helmet". I'm sure that it won't make a huge difference, but it won't hurt.

Paragliding helmets are another good place to look. They are designed to be snag-free and fairly aerodynamic. They have pockets for in-air communication systems [audible would probably fit] and they actually have solid protection. They aren't DOT approved, but they'll still help. The Charly Insider is one of the more significantly padded helmets. The Charly No Limit is a solid full-face helmet with a visor and the Charly Air Control will blend right in with normal skydiving helmets. A company called Icaro makes several helmets as well, though the padding is apparently not as significant. The Icaro Blue Velvet is one viable option.

Beware of purpose-built hang-gliding helmets, as they are probably extremely dangerous for skydiving.

On the ground, the motorsports industry has more helmets than anybody else. They're also DOT approved, so they'll really keep your noggin' about as safe as can be. The bummer is that they can weigh a ton and have peripheral vision restrictions. Motocross helmets [with their visors] can have numerous significant snag points. The visors can be removed, but the helmets are still generally quite "angular" to look more "extreme".

A handful of these companies make DOT approved mountain biking helmets. When helmets are designed with foot-propulsion in mind, they're generally lighter. A DOT approved helmet weighing under 1.5-2lbs can be had for less money than a normal skydiving helmet.

Hopefully more people will post more links and helmets that they recommend. I'm not trying to pretend like I know something here, I'm just linking away. Hell, it's just something to think about. I'm sure next to nobody will pick up a protective helmet, but if most of your jumping consists of hop & pops for high-performance approaches, well...


(This post was edited by MB38 on Jul 26, 2006, 12:11 AM)


dorbie

Jul 26, 2006, 12:47 AM
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That icaro is a skyrunner, the color is blue velvet.

I own one and have jumped with it. It would be viable if the visor was latched, the chin did not protrude as much and the neck had a seal. All full face PG helmets have huge chins as part of the face protection. In RW it's way out there catching air and blasting your visor up.

It is it just doesn't do the job but it could with some design change. I noticed this today:

http://www.icaro2000.com/...%20paracadutismo.htm

There is a cut version without the dirty great head hook near the reserve container:

http://www.icaro2000.com/...l/Cut%20integral.htm

and one without the chin protrusion but the visor is unsuited:

http://www.icaro2000.com/...%20Jet/Cut%20Jet.htm

The chin still seems to protrude in some of these (in real life it protrudes more than is apparent from the images). Dunno about the neck & visor for sure. It's encouraging that skydiving is somewhat on their radar.

My icaro and other PG helmets have a good half inch of protection all over of rigid injection moulded styrofoam that will mitigate heavy impacts. They're still light and the extra size isn't problematic, it's nowhere near as big as a motorcycle helmet for example.

For a moderate freefall impact you may want something like memory foam as I'm not sure pure styrofoam would keep you awake, it's pretty darned firm. Brain saving stuff for hitting something hard but in PG that's the ground and you don't have to worry about being awake to pull stable & fly.

That's a key design issue I think, freefall impact vs ground impact. But a good amount of space and something light in it to be crushed instead of your brain is definitely an improvement over most skydiving helmets.

There seems to be an innate acceptance that pro-tec helmets offer more protection and some jump with them, but that hasn't translated into a market for helmets with good impact protection.

Is it the lack of products or the lack of market that's the issue? Chicken or egg?


Armour666  (B 30794)

Jul 26, 2006, 5:12 AM
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Re: [dorbie] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump with this

http://www.pro-tec.net/images/bike_helmets/aitken_ace.jpg

this is my do everything helmet , I BMX , Spring/warmdays snowboard with it


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jul 26, 2006, 5:29 AM
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Re: [MB38] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

Good post, but I disagree on one point.

In reply to:
The classic ProTec is the good 'ol standby. It's cheap and designed for protection. It's not the biggest, best helmet... and you won't win too many style points... but it works. Yee haw.

ProTec makes a line of very cool skateboarding and snowboarding helmets, that DO win many style points. I wear one, and get comments about how cool it is usually once a day.

$50 at the local sports MegaMart.

_Am


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jul 26, 2006, 2:55 PM
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Re: [AndyMan] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

>>$50 at the local sports MegaMart. <<

Or cheaper at various skydiving retailers. Wink


MB38  (A 48618)

Jul 26, 2006, 8:09 PM
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Re: [dorbie] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That icaro is a skyrunner, the color is blue velvet.
Thanks for catching me on that - and other - points. I would edit but it's too late.


In reply to:
For a moderate freefall impact you may want something like memory foam as I'm not sure pure styrofoam would keep you awake, it's pretty darned firm. Brain saving stuff for hitting something hard but in PG that's the ground and you don't have to worry about being awake to pull stable & fly.

There's an interesting point here. For minor impacts, crush-type foam built for high-speed impacts may do more harm than good. If the impact isn't great enough to break the foam apart [to dissipate the energy], it may find its way directly into your head.

One perspective is that "even if it sends it to your head, it won't be worse than no helmet at all", but still.

For a 40mph impact with the planet, however, I would want some good 'ol breakable/crushable styrofoam up there. That said, I probably wouldn't wear a DOT motocross helmet on a RW jump.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 26, 2006, 11:03 PM
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In reply to:
>>$50 at the local sports MegaMart. <<

Or cheaper at various skydiving retailers. Wink

Bonnie is always on top of her game.Smile


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jul 26, 2006, 11:22 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry. Sometimes I can't help myself. Also, I've already exhausted myself on another "Why don't we have better helmets?" thread.

In regards to the whole helmet lining debate...

... if you want to give up the low profile for that extra protection, check this out:

http://www.boneheadcomposites.com/mil_m3t.htm

For myself. I'll stick with low profile and sufficient padding for my needs. I wore a Pro-Tec for 500 jumps, a frap hat for 500 jumps. And for the last 1500 or so, I've worn an Aviator.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 27, 2006, 1:37 AM
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Re: [GravityGirl] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

No "sorry" needed.

I like mine better plus it offers balistic protection.Smile
Attachments: Flight Helmet.jpg (78.6 KB)


FFAddict  (D 1083)

Jul 27, 2006, 1:37 AM
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Re: [MB38] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Paragliding helmets are another good place to look. They are designed to be snag-free and fairly aerodynamic. They have pockets for in-air communication systems [audible would probably fit] and they actually have solid protection. They aren't DOT approved, but they'll still help. The Charly Insider is one of the more significantly padded helmets.
In reply to:

Does anybody actually jump any of the charly (or similar) helmets? They look great


(This post was edited by FFAddict on Jul 27, 2006, 1:38 AM)


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jul 27, 2006, 1:56 AM
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Re: [FFAddict] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

Have a look at that helmet again. Now picture the airflow of a belly to earth or sit fly skydive.

The entire chin area is exposed. The helmet would catch air and slide up.

But you're right. It's pretty, and it's padded.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 27, 2006, 2:42 AM
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Re: [GravityGirl] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned an old Bell (or similar) helmet from the 60s/70s. They have much more protection then even the Pro-Tec and you can still find them out there in good condition. I've been watching on E-bay forever for a good deal in my size to wear riding, but it worked in one era of skydiving and would do much more good then the other "helmet" from that era (frap-hat).

http://www.justifieddefiance.com/...31ca02d338256c4ca1b9

Nevermind that these guys have some VERY sweet pin stripe work.


rigger_john  (C 101098)

Jul 27, 2006, 3:40 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I like mine better plus it offers balistic protection.Smile

Do you get shot at much while skydiving WinkTongue


dorbie

Jul 27, 2006, 3:45 AM
Post #14 of 34 (4127 views)
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Re: [FFAddict] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Paragliding helmets are another good place to look. They are designed to be snag-free and fairly aerodynamic. They have pockets for in-air communication systems [audible would probably fit] and they actually have solid protection. They aren't DOT approved, but they'll still help. The Charly Insider is one of the more significantly padded helmets.
In reply to:

Does anybody actually jump any of the charly (or similar) helmets? They look great

Yes here's that link again:

http://www.icaro2000.com/...%20paracadutismo.htm

But I've tried this and the one I jumped definitely has issues that I've mentioned already, these look a bit better but I don't trust that it's fully resolved. The issues not insurmountable though.


(This post was edited by dorbie on Jul 27, 2006, 3:48 AM)


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Jul 27, 2006, 6:55 AM
Post #15 of 34 (4102 views)
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Re: Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

As someone who has worn a helmet more than most people ever will in their life time. I have had a fair chance to try and wear just about everything out there.

For skydiving and similar sports, its more likely that you will bang your head against an A/C or another jumper and for the most part, skydiving helmets do an OK job of mitigating the damage to your head from those types of impacts. However, for true impact protection, ie: your skull crashing into the ground after your body hits the ground, there are few good solutions out there.

I have and use a Gentex flight helmet for work jumps and while it works, it is not what I'd consider an ideal head protection device as much as it is a functional piece of equipment that allows me to attach all the other work related bells and whistles to my head. I have also used the M3T helmet by Bonehead, which is an improvement on the Gentex we have been using for years but it's intention is still to attach equipment to ones head. Compared to the price of the Gentex helmet, which runs around $1200.00, the M3T is a good deal as it does have some significant padding/protection inside of it;it has to in order to meet Mil Specs.

The Pro-tec or Cascade type of helmet WITH the Oregon-Aero inserts is also a helmet that is approved by and that I use at work on occassion. By and far, this is the most ecconomical way to get a higher level of head protection from anything in the skydiving helmet market. While motorcycle helmets may provide better protection, they have been designed specifically for their application. It is not an absolute,but it is typical that in skydiving, most peoples bodies impact the earth before their head does. The Oregon Aero upgrade kit utilizes different materials in its construction which help disapate and absorb the force of impacts typicaly encountered in our sport and others without being overly bulky.

My personal opinion is that if you want better impact protection you can use an Oregon Aero upgrade kit for open face or full face helmets you might already have OR you can purcahse an M3T , which if you really value your head, is resonably priced for its level of protection. Short of going back to the old BELL hemlet, you will be hard pressed to find anything better commercially available.


(This post was edited by LouDiamond on Jul 27, 2006, 12:38 PM)


gus

Jul 27, 2006, 7:36 AM
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Re: [FFAddict] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Does anybody actually jump any of the charly (or similar) helmets? They look great

Here's a picture of some dork in a Lazer Downhill (paragliding helmet). It's very light but quite big as you can in the pic. If I'm not jumping camera I normally just use my ProTec.

Gus


(This post was edited by gus on Jul 27, 2006, 7:37 AM)


dontiego  (C License)

Jul 27, 2006, 7:42 AM
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Re: [gus] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

No one speaks for or against parasport's Z1 and Z1 EVO?

What do you think of these?


Elisha  (D 31656)

Jul 27, 2006, 8:24 AM
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Re: [dontiego] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the point was ALTERNATIVES to skydiving helmets.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Jul 27, 2006, 8:59 AM
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Re: [MB38] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been looking at some ski and snowboarding helmets that seem to have good protection.

Kevin


Spatula  (A 48026)

Jul 27, 2006, 11:01 AM
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Re: [kkeenan] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

What's everyone's opinion on this protec????


http://www.pro-tec.net/skate.html


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 27, 2006, 11:05 AM
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I'm personally not a big fan of half-shell helmets for freefall. Personally I found them uncomfortable, since the helmet pulls up and back in freefall, pulling at your neck, head and chin.


HydroGuy

Jul 27, 2006, 12:26 PM
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I don't think a paragliding helmet would be comfortable doing belly or freeflying. Tracking or wingsuit maybe.

I wouldn't want to jump my motocross helmet, I imagine sit flying in it and it's not a pretty comfortable picture. I also imagine a hard opening...ouch. But then again it can't weigh more than a bonehead with a camera. If I were a swooper doing H&P's, it might be an option.

The "cool" protekt skate helmets generally are half shells, lacking protection around the ears and such. I have the dorky one like you see in the wind tunnel and AFF with ear protection that I use for BASE...but I'm cool with looking like a dork. I wear it even if I'm jumping into water. The protekt is loud in freefall though.

Downhill mountain bike helmets look nice...some have CE ratings for protection, which has to be better than nothing. I'm getting a Dainese downhill MTB helmet for solid/technical objects, and I think this would be a very good alternative for swoopers.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 27, 2006, 12:41 PM
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Re: [rigger_john] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I like mine better plus it offers balistic protection.Smile

Do you get shot at much while skydiving WinkTongue

Ever do a demo into Compton CA. ?


(This post was edited by mjosparky on Jul 27, 2006, 12:46 PM)


rigger_john  (C 101098)

Jul 28, 2006, 2:09 AM
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Ever do a demo into Compton CA. ?
I've always said that demo jumping is dangerous, but thats a new twist. Laugh


dorbie

Jul 28, 2006, 10:28 AM
Post #25 of 34 (3916 views)
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Re: [HydroGuy] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't think a paragliding helmet would be comfortable doing belly or freeflying. Tracking or wingsuit maybe.

I wouldn't want to jump my motocross helmet, I imagine sit flying in it and it's not a pretty comfortable picture. I also imagine a hard opening...ouch. But then again it can't weigh more than a bonehead with a camera. If I were a swooper doing H&P's, it might be an option.

The "cool" protekt skate helmets generally are half shells, lacking protection around the ears and such. I have the dorky one like you see in the wind tunnel and AFF with ear protection that I use for BASE...but I'm cool with looking like a dork. I wear it even if I'm jumping into water. The protekt is loud in freefall though.

Downhill mountain bike helmets look nice...some have CE ratings for protection, which has to be better than nothing. I'm getting a Dainese downhill MTB helmet for solid/technical objects, and I think this would be a very good alternative for swoopers.

I wouldn't say PG helmets were particularly bad or uncomfortable, just not suited due to the chin config mainly, fix that (compromise on length) and they'd be fine. It's not just in freefall, try turning your head past risers under canopy when you have a 8 inch beak in front of you. Or see if you can see your handles under the chin, but like I said, these are fixable.

A PG helmet is nowhere near as bulky or heavy as a motorcycle helmet, which is why I gave it a try in the first place.


obi

Aug 3, 2006, 12:53 AM
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Re: [HydroGuy] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently did some base-jumps with a mountainbike, and as I landed on the bike, I wanted to have the best available protection: I went with my Motocross-helmet, a 661 Flight. On the first test-jump I ditched the bike and tracked for 15-20 secs, so I opened at full speed. I also had side-mounted a camera and so I was a bit worried about risers and weight.
No problem with tracking, opening or anything else - I just turned the head slightly to avoid the riser slap the cam.
But I have to admit that this a bit hardcore and I wouldn't use it for jumping all the time. There are lighter mtb-dh-helmets like the 661 full bravo carbon for example and my skiing helmet even weighs a fracture of this and it does a good job - I did hit my head hard with it while skiing and it saved my head from getting a big hole.
I do not believe at all in skydiving-helmets when it comes to protection. Like mentioned above they are designed to protect you from cold wind, noise and maybe a knee hitting your nose - period.


Zoter

Aug 3, 2006, 1:11 AM
Post #27 of 34 (1001 views)
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Quote:
Does anybody actually jump any of the charly (or similar) helmets? They look great
I use mine predominantly for BASE although I have skydived with it as well ( no problems with security...head up...down and flatflying)
Its comfortable and very well padded ( the right way)
Also offers excellent peripheral vison.
Because of the padding its quite big.


chemist  (A License)

Jul 29, 2012, 8:07 PM
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can someone explain to me why I can't get the Ozone helmet from cookie composites as a student?

I am newb and posted in another thread and was told I have to get the pro-tec.

I don't understand why they said the protec is the best protective helmet there is [for students]? The Ozone is a carbon shell, which is stronger than the plastic that the pro-tecs are made out of, so how can that be an issue? Is it heavier? Does the closed ear make it harder to hear people in the jump plane or the radio?

I'd prefer to get something that looks nice if there is no disadvantage in doing so for a student.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jul 29, 2012, 10:25 PM
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In reply to:
can someone explain to me why I can't get the Ozone helmet from cookie composites as a student?

I am newb and posted in another thread and was told I have to get the pro-tec.

I don't understand why they said the protec is the best protective helmet there is [for students]? The Ozone is a carbon shell, which is stronger than the plastic that the pro-tecs are made out of, so how can that be an issue? Is it heavier? Does the closed ear make it harder to hear people in the jump plane or the radio?

I'd prefer to get something that looks nice if there is no disadvantage in doing so for a student.

OK, a response from a grumpy old fart.

Please read what people wrote in the other thread.

They did not tell you you couldn't get the Ozone that you so badly want so you can look cool. They said the Protec will provide better protection. The Protec has actually been designed and tested to provide a certain level of protection. As a student, your landings will suck and bonking your head while doing a PLF is always a possibility. Skydiving helmets are made to be light weight, have a location for an audible, and maybe hold a camera. They are not made to protect your head from much more than bumping your head on the door as you exit the plane.

So if you want protection, get the Protec. If you want to look like the cool kids, buy the much more expensive and non protecting Ozone.

And for god sake, FORGET about sticking a camera on your head until you get the suggested jumps. If you have read the two stickies in the camera forum and you still think you are more skilled than the folks that have a bit more understanding than a zero jump newb, please do us all a favor and take up bowling instead. We don't like having to write up accident reports for the kid who didn't listen because he had mad skilz.

--sigh--

Man I am getting old and grumpy.Unsure


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jul 30, 2012, 12:34 AM
Post #30 of 34 (644 views)
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Re: [chemist] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
can someone explain to me why I can't get the Ozone helmet from cookie composites as a student?

I am newb and posted in another thread and was told I have to get the pro-tec.

I don't understand why they said the protec is the best protective helmet there is [for students]? The Ozone is a carbon shell, which is stronger than the plastic that the pro-tecs are made out of, so how can that be an issue? Is it heavier? Does the closed ear make it harder to hear people in the jump plane or the radio?

I'd prefer to get something that looks nice if there is no disadvantage in doing so for a student.

You clearly have no idea about how helmets protect you, or not.

As stated here and in the other thread, skydive helmets are made to look nice, hold your audibles, protect your face from a knee in relative work, hold cameras, protect your head from a glancing blow from say the airplane door or the risers. They are NOT rated for head protection, as stated before. They are NOT made to protect your head like a skate, snowboard, canoo helmet is, which is what a pro-tec IS.

Do a bit of research into just HOW (mechanically) a helmet protects you head. You may be surprised!

And do buy a pro-trec/benny type helmet (WITH ear protection) if you want actual PROTECTION. If you just want to look COOL and spend a lot, get one of the quite expensive skydive helmets. Which may not even be the right one for your further skydiving plans off student status, so be prepared to buy another one soonish.

I still have my pro-tect from my student days, still comes in handy now and then.

Oh yeah, for the nth time, camera flying is best left to 200+ (or IMO 300-500+) jump jumpers. So it is of NO consideration to a student.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 30, 2012, 5:00 AM
Post #31 of 34 (613 views)
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Re: [chemist] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
can someone explain to me why I can't get the Ozone helmet from cookie composites as a student?

Most of the time the radios used to help guide studetns to the DZ for landing will be mounted, either whole or in part, to the student helmets procided by the DZ. End result, you have to jump their helmet.

If you find a DZ that uses radios with no attachment to the helmet, and your instructors approve of the fit of your own helmet, and it's ability to let you hear the radio through the helmet, you may very well be able to jump your own helmet.

However, there's a chance they won't and a chance you're not going to like skydiving (or be any good at it) and then you just wasted $250.

I suggest not being such a pansy, and just jump the same helmets that most students end up jumping. Throughout the day of your first jump, you're going to be intentionall falling down and rolling around on the floor (PLF practice), laying down in various locations at the DZ (practicing your arch), crawling around on the floor of the plane, and then most likely falling down in the dirt when you land. If you think a 'clean' helmet is going to make for a 'clean' experience, you're sadly mistaken.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 31, 2012, 1:09 AM
Post #32 of 34 (569 views)
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In reply to:
I don't understand why they said the protec is the best protective helmet there is [for students]?

This is the key..you dont understand. But you are not going to let that get in the way shopping for an answer that you like. You are still on student status and you already know more than those moron instructors.

I think they look like they are made for the kids on the short bus.but if you like them go ahead and buy tomorrow. What could possibly go wrong? CrazyUnsure

Sparky


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Jul 31, 2012, 10:51 AM
Post #33 of 34 (526 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What could possibly go wrong?
The very words I live by.

On a related note, I bought myself a protec-style helmet for my student jumps, and I still use it. It was second hand, very cheap and very comfortable. I would say go right ahead and buy a helmet which you like and are allowed to use.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 31, 2012, 9:03 PM
Post #34 of 34 (488 views)
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Re: [Quagmirian] Protective Helmets [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What could possibly go wrong?
The very words I live by.

On a related note, I bought myself a protec-style helmet for my student jumps, and I still use it. It was second hand, very cheap and very comfortable. I would say go right ahead and buy a helmet which you like and are allowed to use.

And can die by. Wink

Sparky



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