Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
What's best freefly rig?

 

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rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 28, 2006, 11:21 AM
Post #26 of 152 (3794 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hey diablo, have you been reading this thread or are you just rubbing it in? Tongue

By the way, did you know in your earlier post that you showed two throw-out PCs (one with a hacky handle and one with a pud handle.)

But, and maybe you don't know this, you were calling the pud config a "pull out" incorrectly.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Maybe someone will describe what a "pull out" is.


Tongue


edit: if we keep doing this, it stops getting funny. BUT, if we then keep doing it more, it starts getting funny again.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 28, 2006, 11:22 AM)


apoil  (D License)

Jun 28, 2006, 7:45 PM
Post #27 of 152 (3765 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] REFOCUS: What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, my question is: What are the things VERY experienced freeflyers have gleaned over the years as to what make a rig particularly freefly FRIENDLY or not? Clearly, good riser protection, PIN protection. But what else? Articulation?, flexibility?, rigidity? What else?

ok. At the risk of totally ignoring my own advice about irresponsibility:

smallness.

A small rig is less bulk to lug through a transition, and less aerodynamic drag all around. Better be able to fly the tiny main and the highly loaded reserve under all circumstances though.

In my case my canopy skills evolved at the same pace as my freeflying skills which is to say very slowly. For some that's not the case. Safety under canopy is top priority. But smaller kit is nice when you freefly.

My gear has always been cutom sized for me and articulated. The cut in laterals on new gear is also nice, although it makes less of a difference if the container is narrower than your back.

I also use the bungee between the leg straps. With hip rings that makes a huge difference for head up flying. Some swoopers don't like it though because it affects their ability to harness turn.


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jul 3, 2006, 10:48 AM
Post #28 of 152 (3692 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

MIRAGE!!!!!!

Comfortable Unison Harness, delux back pad, nice big soft handles, the free fly handle is what I have, and its so secure....and Mirage is of a way newer design than Javelin is. I think you cant go wrong with the G4. Its encompasses all the "free-fly friendly" aspects...hands down.

As you can see the Free Fly Hacky is nice and snug...and look at the riser protection...2 tight, secure flaps...very, very safe!!!!

Need I say more....buy a G4!!!!!!
Attachments: Wades Pics 141.jpg (57.4 KB)
  Wades Pics 143.jpg (67.1 KB)


Zoter

Jul 3, 2006, 2:33 PM
Post #29 of 152 (3672 views)
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Re: [EXTremeWade] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you sure that pud isnt part of a 'pull out' system.....it kinda looks like one...dont it?

LaughLaughLaugh


(This post was edited by Zoter on Jul 3, 2006, 2:34 PM)


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 5, 2006, 1:02 PM
Post #30 of 152 (3613 views)
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Re: [Zoter] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are you sure that pud isnt part of a 'pull out' system.....it kinda looks like one...dont it?

LaughLaughLaugh

It's not but I am guessing you were trying to be funny. Though this isn't the place to joke around.


marks  (D 22296)

Jul 5, 2006, 3:35 PM
Post #31 of 152 (3602 views)
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Re: [EXTremeWade] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
MIRAGE!!!!!!

Comfortable Unison Harness, delux back pad, nice big soft handles, the free fly handle is what I have, and its so secure....and Mirage is of a way newer design than Javelin is. I think you cant go wrong with the G4. Its encompasses all the "free-fly friendly" aspects...hands down.

As you can see the Free Fly Hacky is nice and snug...and look at the riser protection...2 tight, secure flaps...very, very safe!!!!

Need I say more....buy a G4!!!!!!

the G4 is a great rig, but so is a G3, and the G3 is cheaper.Wink


nigelh  (D 101473)

Jul 5, 2006, 4:34 PM
Post #32 of 152 (3598 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can't beat the Javelin Odyssey,
If BaByLoN, the World Champions, use them, they can't be that bad!

Nigel


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:32 PM
Post #33 of 152 (3591 views)
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Re: [Zoter] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Naw man...its still a hacky


EXTremeWade  (D 29835)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:37 PM
Post #34 of 152 (3590 views)
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Re: [nigelh] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

True...not that bad, just not the best. I mean, all of these types of rigs are airworthy, no doubt. What I was trying to say was that the newer designs and innovations that we see on most all of the higher end rigs these days come standard on a G3/G4's right outta the factory.

As far a Babylon, well, when someone gives you free gear, do you turn it down..that was a bad example my friend..c'mon!!! Wink


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 6, 2006, 7:12 AM
Post #35 of 152 (3571 views)
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Re: [EXTremeWade] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
...when someone gives you free gear, do you turn it down...

I think that is an overstatement. It is pretty hard to get a sponsorship by that company. Which means they are good flyers with an agenda and they likely had the pick-of-the-litter - of sponsors.


(This post was edited by Vertifly on Jul 6, 2006, 7:28 AM)


Stumpy  (C 104288)

Jul 6, 2006, 7:18 AM
Post #36 of 152 (3569 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

But i have seen more main flaps open on Javelins than any other rig. Apparently they are fixing that this year and a couple of other things but to me they are still playing catch up at the moment.


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 6, 2006, 7:29 AM
Post #37 of 152 (3564 views)
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Re: [Stumpy] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

That is beside my point but true. They've been working on that problem for a couple versions now.


Stumpy  (C 104288)

Jul 6, 2006, 7:46 AM
Post #38 of 152 (3559 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah sorry - reply wasn't really aimed at you! Wink


cHoDaBoY  (B 5384)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:28 AM
Post #39 of 152 (3542 views)
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Re: [Stumpy] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I didnt have time to read all the post. Different people will tell you different thing. Some will say javalin some will say mirage. Different manufactures have plus and minus to them.

So the only way i can answer your question as to which right is the best freefly rig? WINGS!Tongue


cHoDaBoY  (B 5384)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:31 AM
Post #40 of 152 (3540 views)
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Re: [cHoDaBoY] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I changed my mind. The best freefly rig hands down in an old reflex or dolphin from the 80's with no mods done to it.Shocked


Bowen  (C 37322)

Jul 7, 2006, 6:34 AM
Post #41 of 152 (3510 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

An early 90s dolphinTongue


apoil  (D License)

Jul 7, 2006, 7:22 AM
Post #42 of 152 (3501 views)
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Re: [Stumpy] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But i have seen more main flaps open on Javelins than any other rig. Apparently they are fixing that this year and a couple of other things but to me they are still playing catch up at the moment.

There are more javelins in the market than any other rig.

Thanks for your scientific method.

If the canopy is the proper size for the container and the closing loop is the right length and the gear was properly broken in, this doesn't happen.

I've seen it happen on Vector, Wings and Mirage rigs as well. Every rig has its pluses and minuses. But all are safe for freeflying.

Oddly, as annoying as it is, I've never heard of or seen a malfunction or fatality that resulted from the main pin cover being open.


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 7, 2006, 9:00 AM
Post #43 of 152 (3491 views)
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Re: [apoil] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've seen it happen on Vector, Wings and Mirage rigs as well. Every rig has its pluses and minuses. But all are safe for freeflying.

All...or all the ones you listed? Either way, contestable.

There is a new cut by Wings that looks really good - it is being tested now. That rig is getting very tight. I flew one all day last month and didn't want to give it back to the owner.

Mirage - a little too bulky in my opinion.

Vector...anyone freeflying one of these? There probably ok. I have heard only satisfactory opinions about them

Javelin was my first rig; I really liked the way it packed, but it lacked a few freefly qualities (like riser flaps) until recently and word on the street is there are still issues with the main flap coming loose; it may be a good idea to get a good look at one before seriously considering it above another one. But that is the only reason I didn't buy another one. It was a tight rig.

I have experience with other rigs too, but I'd personally stop here and advise anyone to choose between them until something, arguably, as good or better comes along. Good luck man. Cool


Stumpy  (C 104288)

Jul 7, 2006, 9:00 AM
Post #44 of 152 (3491 views)
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Re: [apoil] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Thanks for your scientific method.

ROFL - because the scientific method is how freefly suitability is being measured here?! Give me a break. This is more "I have one and world champ x/y/z has one so it must be the best!!"

Quote:
Oddly, as annoying as it is, I've never heard of or seen a malfunction or fatality that resulted from the main pin cover being open.

True but on balance, i'd rather mine was shut because there is always a first time.
I have nothing against Javelin, the first rig i used a lot was a javelin, and i find them really comfortable but i would rather they sorted out the main flap first, then it will be right at the top of my list.

Quote:
If the canopy is the proper size for the container and the closing loop is the right length and the gear was properly broken in, this doesn't happen.
Last time i jumped with someone who had this happen was a very well known freeflyer with probably more than 10 times as many jumps as me, and he said it just happens. I wasn't going to be the one to tell him he should be on a different size canopy!Wink


apoil  (D License)

Jul 8, 2006, 8:12 AM
Post #45 of 152 (3468 views)
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Re: [Stumpy] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Thanks for your scientific method.

ROFL - because the scientific method is how freefly suitability is being measured here?! Give me a break. This is more "I have one and world champ x/y/z has one so it must be the best!!"

I'll go more slowly - when someone says I've seen more javelins do x than any other rig, it makes a difference that in all likelihood he's seen more javelins PERIOD than any other rig.

If I say, I've seen more malfunctions on Javelins than any other rig does it mean Javelins are more prone to malfunctions? Not without more information.

Quote:
I have nothing against Javelin, the first rig i used a lot was a javelin, and i find them really comfortable but i would rather they sorted out the main flap first, then it will be right at the top of my list.

My last Jav stayed closed for 1800 jumps. Then I changed mains to a velocity with a bigger pack volume in the same container and it didn't fit exactly right. Due to wear on the stiff tab and an improperly sized main it started opening. I had a rigger put a new tab in and now it is perfectly secure.

I've seen the main flap open on other rigs. I mentioned Wings, Mirage and Vector because they all use a similar design to protect the main pin.

In reply to:
Last time i jumped with someone who had this happen was a very well known freeflyer with probably more than 10 times as many jumps as me, and he said it just happens. I wasn't going to be the one to tell him he should be on a different size canopy!Wink

"It just happens". That sounds more like "I don't know why it happens and I can't be bothered to do anything about it right now"

It doesn't happen to all Javs, particularly if the main is the proper size for the container. Lots of highly experienced jumpers end up changing main sizes and not wanting to invest in a new rig.
It can be fixed, but maybe not all riggers are up to the task, and not all jumpers are up to the expense for something that is ultimately more of an inconvenience than a safety issue.

I might not buy a brand new Javelin if I were shopping for one today, but it would still be a leading candidate.


HydroGuy

Jul 8, 2006, 12:31 PM
Post #46 of 152 (3462 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

The best freefly rig is whatever Mike Swanson exits the plane with on that jump........


EricaH  (D License)

Jul 10, 2006, 12:17 PM
Post #47 of 152 (3403 views)
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Re: [EXTremeWade] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not always mirage.... here's a copy of my complaint I've posted all over the place
"I have a custom Mirage G4.1 - I love the way it fits on the ground & under canopy, ordered it to fit tight. The cut in laterals are WONDERFUL! The leg straps perfect - it's all good. For the first time I am comfortable for the whole ride during a cross country.

However, in freefall, while transitioning to head down; the shoulder straps fall off one shoulder - ie. the yoke is too wide. I ONLY have this problem when cartwheeling to HD. During any other type of dive; I love the rig.

I can get the shoulders to stay on, only if I tighten the chest strap so the MLW is about 3 inches apart accross my bust. This is uncomfortable for me (boobs directly under the metal rings), looks bad & I notice a (negative) difference in the way my canopy opens.

Mirage called to ask if I was satisfied w/ my rig about 5 months after it was delivered. I brought up the above issue. So the man pulled my file, did some asking around & came back w/ this response. I have a bag size M1 (fits a spectre 150 tight as a brick, made for a 120 - 135 main). When Mirages are made, they figure someone using "this large of a main must be a larger person & therefore they do not pay attn to the measurements when determining yoke sizing."

There's nothing I can do about this - I'm extremly frustraited. Now I have to learn hd while getting over any anxiety that I'm going to fall out of my rig. I know I can't if I'm strapped in correctly - but it's still freaky!

Anyway - that's my only problem. Making sure the yoke is the right width. Why measure otherwise?"

I won't buy one ever again.


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Jul 10, 2006, 9:03 PM
Post #48 of 152 (3384 views)
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Re: [MalcolmR] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

the best freefly rig is a power racer
Attachments: racer nos black and silver.jpg (44.0 KB)


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 11, 2006, 9:35 AM
Post #49 of 152 (3355 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love these arguments... OMG xyz rig is the best. Omg this that the next guy.

I'll just come out and say I jump a vector3 and my next rig will be a vector3 and its because of the skyhook and quality of work put into them.

I like my vector cause of the effor that Bill Booth has put into making this sport safe. Even though there are lighter rigs with less plastic and cheaper rigs too. There is also a myriad of little engeneering things that I have been preached to about (and mostly don't remember) that satisfies my internal need to feel good about my rig.

And Team Mandrin jumps them so they must be awesome right?



All the above is a big joke, the bottom line is, people buy and jump what they percieve to be the best _for them_. If price means something to you, you might think wings is the best, they are pretty damn cheap. If you care about things like the skyhook you only have 1 option.


(This post was edited by Fast on Jul 11, 2006, 9:36 AM)


yardhippie  (D License)

Jul 11, 2006, 1:34 PM
Post #50 of 152 (3339 views)
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Re: [Fast] What's best freefly rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

All the above is a big joke, the bottom line is, people buy and jump what they percieve to be the best _for them_. If price means something to you, you might think wings is the best, they are pretty damn cheap. If you care about things like the skyhook you only have 1 option.

I'll say that. To each his own.
I used to be a die hard Mirage owner. Ive got lots of friends jumping them. I've got about 700 jumps on my container now, and it's been a good one. I like the looks, construction, comfort, and features/options. I am in the market for a new container, BUT as of late I am thinking I'll have a much harder look at other manufacturers.

sometimes enough little things can sway you toward or away from your purchase.


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