Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Stalling my canopy

 

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bert_man

Feb 18, 2006, 12:49 AM
Post #51 of 65 (1298 views)
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Re: [MB38] Braked Approach/Landing, Stalls & Accuracy, for novice Jumpers by Don Yahrling [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that was an old email and he's talking about in the US. In 2003 the USPA upped the requirements for all licenses:

A: 20 to 25
B: 50 (I think it stayed there?)
C: 100 to 200
D: 200 to 500

That's probably what he was referring to.

As for stalls, I love 'em and do it on probably a good 30-40% of my jumps, sometimes riding them for 5-10 seconds. I even go as far as to try to make it do things on recovery, like "hmm lets see if i can make it recover 180 degrees off my heading, to the right" or "lets see how fast i can make it recover without surging wildly".

I jump a sabre 170 loaded at 1.4-ish. Doing these stalls so often has really helped me learn to 'feel' my canopy. It's hard to gain that instinctual feel of your canopy without ever having much variation in line tension or having certain parts of your canopy collapse and actually know it's coming so you can look at your canopy and see what is really occuring as you feel it, knowing that you're at a safe altitude to do so.

I've had instances (one very interesting one recently, low to the ground) where my canopy has done some crazy stuff in turbulent winds and I was able to instantly identify my situation just by feeling the pressure changes in the risers and the harness. I don't think I'd have been as calm when the left-front portion of my canopy folded completely under at 50 feet this past weekend if I hadn't done all the stalls that I do.

In fact, a stall is one of the first things that I do when I try a new canopy... if only to determine the control stroke, at the very least.

I might not keep up with this same practice when I fly a velocity 98 someday, though I think that doing it now definitely better prepares me for any future mishaps on any canopy.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 18, 2006, 4:10 AM
Post #52 of 65 (1289 views)
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Re: [glyrenden] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Congrats, Jason!
Weird feeling eh?Crazy
Now, with practice you can ingrain that feeling of what a stall feels like and can go on to develop the finesse to be able detect it early on and (with your instructor's advice) hopefully be able to prevent the unintentional from going full out.

Good stuff.

I feel much better now knowing that you got your instructor's input from someone that knows and has oboserved your canopy skills. Too often youngsters get cocky and wind up getting hurt....It's refreshing to see someone keeping the ego in check and doing things with safety in mind.

As for the "heated" discussion going on here...LaughLaugh...don't worry. Excited, heated banter happens all the time on DZ.com between people having and expressing differing opinions. You can be sure though that 99% of the old-timers out here will always lean towards the side of "safety first". The younger ones tend to be much braver (and I'm not saying that they are unsafe in all cases) and that can be a good thing in that the "envelope" gets pushed and stretched and more skydiving doors open up. Sadly, sometimes at a heavy price.

Anyway, keep up the good work and always be safety conscious.


AFFI  (D 25538)

Feb 18, 2006, 9:07 AM
Post #53 of 65 (1280 views)
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Re: [MB38] Braked Approach/Landing, Stalls & Accuracy, for novice Jumpers by Don Yahrling [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
...the A License requirement is going up to 25 jumps in September...
What country?

USA - Don wrote this a while back, the year USPA changed the A Liscense requirements...


MB38  (A 48618)

Feb 18, 2006, 11:08 AM
Post #54 of 65 (1267 views)
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Re: [AFFI] Braked Approach/Landing, Stalls & Accuracy, for novice Jumpers by Don Yahrling [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for clarifying, didn't realize the quote was old


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Feb 18, 2006, 2:22 PM
Post #55 of 65 (1252 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You can be sure though that 99% of the old-timers out here will always lean towards the side of "safety first". The younger ones tend to be much braver

unless we're talking about breakoff and pull altitudes. Or the use of backups like AADs and RSLs.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 18, 2006, 8:45 PM
Post #56 of 65 (1235 views)
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Re: [kelpdiver] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Eh?


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Feb 18, 2006, 9:06 PM)


tbrown  (D 6533)

Feb 18, 2006, 10:36 PM
Post #57 of 65 (1230 views)
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Re: [glyrenden] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

1. is it safe to stall the chute? when I learned to fly airplanes we stalled the plane alot to learn what an approaching stall felt like. is it ok to stall the chute up high to learn?

2. I'm currently flying a saber 2 210 and I'm 175lbs + gear. How will this canopy stall? I've read that some bow in the middle others end cells colaspe.

3. how high would you recommend that I be to try stalling? I normally pull at around 5000. mostly because I like to play under canopy. should I plan to pull even higher?
1.) Yes, you can safely stall it up high. But get instruction and coaching, just like you did with an airplane.

2.) I stalled my 210 Pilot canopy today in a canopy course taught by Jonathan Tagle at elsinore (this is the same "Scott Miller" course, which Jonathan now also teaches as a partner). Difference aside, a Sabre2 210 should be safely stallable - again, under an instructor's supervison. BELIEVE ME, the recovery is every bit as exciting as the stall, don't try this on your own.

3.) We were making hop & pops from 5 grand. That's plenty. If you're above 2 grand you've got all the room in the world for a cutaway if things go completely to shit. (You're still pulling at 5 grand ? Lord, what ARE they teaching you AFF kids these days ? )


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Feb 18, 2006, 10:57 PM
Post #58 of 65 (1225 views)
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Re: [tbrown] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3.) We were making hop & pops from 5 grand. That's plenty. If you're above 2 grand you've got all the room in the world for a cutaway if things go completely to shit. (You're still pulling at 5 grand ? Lord, what ARE they teaching you AFF kids these days ? )

He's got 20 jumps. You want him to learn canopy skills or not?

(yes, I'm tired of whining about how low timers like to pull high)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Feb 19, 2006, 6:25 PM
Post #59 of 65 (1196 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

>I've played with stall during my SL jumps from 1200-1500.
>Why not? I was told to do so.

Depends largely on the canopy. On a square 290 sqft canopy it's not a big deal provided you have the sky to yourself and you do it high enough. On a Pilot 150 it can be a much bigger deal.

The problem with stalls is generally the recovery rather than the initiation. The key to a safe recovery is a smooth release back up to about 1/2 brakes (the 'stow' position) until the canopy gets a little forward speed.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 20, 2006, 7:32 AM
Post #60 of 65 (1169 views)
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Re: [billvon] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The problem with stalls is generally the recovery rather than the initiation

This can be solved with proper training. If you teach studetns from day one (of stall training) that goingot full flight from a stall is a bad thing, they won;t be tempted to do so. Show them how throwing your hands up to recover is abad thing, that will be the last thing they'll want to do when the canopy stalls.

Teach them that the stall is contained within a few inches of toggle stroke. You enter in a slow and controlled fashion, and you exit the same way.

Have them lock their arms down, thumbs pointed up, and work the stall with wrist action. Thumbs down to stall, thumbs back up to recover.

This is exactly how I was taught, and in fact it was with about the same number of words it was explained to me. Maybe I was a better than average student, but I got it right away, and with a little more explanation, and maybe some ground training in a hanging harness (with bungee toggles), I don't see how anyone could not get the concept.

Even if their in-air performance is less than stellar, even if they come close they'll be in good shape. Even if the blow it 100%, and unevenly rocket the toggle back to the guide rings, provided they have sufficient altitude, and an appropriate canopy, they can handle whatever situation they create.


jheadley  (D 28710)

Feb 21, 2006, 6:35 PM
Post #61 of 65 (1130 views)
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Re: [glyrenden] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a good example of what can happen when you stall and do not recover properly. So if you do it, do it above your decision altitude and let the toggles back up slowly and evenly.

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=3454


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 6, 2013, 3:38 PM
Post #62 of 65 (596 views)
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Re: [Genn] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

link not working.


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 7, 2013, 6:14 AM
Post #63 of 65 (537 views)
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Re: [ChrisD] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
link not working.

That's because it's a 7 year old link to a site that no longer exists.


kd5xb  (Student)

Jan 7, 2013, 8:04 AM
Post #64 of 65 (501 views)
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Re: [labrys] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't explored this much, but you might try http://web.archive.org/...ion=file&id=3454


ChrisD  (No License)

Jan 7, 2013, 2:24 PM
Post #65 of 65 (452 views)
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Re: [kd5xb] Stalling my canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I haven't explored this much, but you might try http://web.archive.org/...ion=file&id=3454

THANKS!


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