First of all, I want to say I am glad Shayna is alive and recovering...and that her bundle is okay.
I am barely off student status, so I can't offer much except my very limited personal experience. I have had a premature brake release, a stuck slider and a couple of line twists (all on different jumps of course). I had heard repeatedly that they were quite common and simple to fix and I think that may be why I was able to stay calm and take care of them.
Blessings to Shayna, you and the rest of the family. Merry Christmas!
Why was she allowed to make the jump with her own gear??? Do you have student gear?? I belive my home dz will not you jump anything other than student gear until you have your A
THIS IS NOT A FLAME
We are not setup for AFF. Our gear is ripcord rather than BOC.
We are not set up for AFF. Our gear is ripcord rather than BOC.
It might be more correct to say you weren't set up for AFF for this particular student, given her previous training. It's okay to use ripcord-equipped rigs for AFF. I'd discourage switching back and forth between ripcord and BOC.
Shayna started with IAD/throwout (I think I read that somewhere in the first 8 pages of this thread, but someone else can go back to look), so sticking with BOC was a good move.
Mark
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PhreeZone (D License)
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Dec 20, 2005, 8:44 PM
Post #204 of 216
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Spend more time at the DZ and you'll see traveling students show up all the time. If you look at their logbook and its all in order with proper comments, signatures and no issues, its usually an indication that you just got a new student for a jump. It happens a few times a month at most DZ's and 99% of the time its normal. DZ's like Perris get it probally a few times a week, are they really going to call for each student that comes through the door?
If an experienced jumper brings out a student, expecially an instructor, in my experience and observations most DZ's look through the logbook, do some ground questions, make sure they are waivered and off they go. SSM did the same thing when I was there in 2002 at least a few times I observed.
I was just curious. I am not a jumper (or skydiver, I don't even know the proper term) but I have always thought it would be a fun thing to try.
Shayna is my neice, and when she said she was going to jump I thought that was great. I am just too much of a coward to try it.
So, I was just wondering how much risk there really is. When I said something to my sister-in-law about wanting to try it, she repleid, "Oh no Kathy, don't do it. I watched my best friend jump to his death." So you add Shayna to that, and I get a little more cowardly.
So my question wasn't specifically about Shayna's accidents, but accidents overall. It seems like you would have to be pretty sharp and really on the ball to do this sport safely -- while I do consider myself to be pretty sharp I do panic quickly, so I would probably have reacted very poorly in Shayna's situation.
I'm sorry to waste you guys and gals time. I know you are in here to learn about YOUR sport, and I shouldn't even be here. I just wanted to know more about it. I get way to involved in my kids lives, and the lives of my neices and nephews -- I'm just a real mother...
Kathy aka Carico Katie
(This post was edited by caico.katie on Dec 20, 2005, 10:37 PM)
Thanks for reply Phree I have seen students show up from other dz's and a phone call be made to their home dz
I went to a boogie just off of student status a phone call was made to my home dz to cross check jump #'s. I went to this boogie with a few senior jumpers one aff instructor and the girl that worked manifest at the time. A phone call was still made Picking up the phone to get a lil student history doesnt seem like that much work.
I dont pretend to know how to run a dz this is just what i have experienced
It seems like you would have to be pretty sharp and really on the ball to do this sport safely -- while I do consider myself to be pretty sharp I do panic quickly, so I would probably have reacted very poorly in Shayna's situation.
That's what it comes down to - being clear headed enough to understand. The only way to do that is to have adequate/proper training the whole way through. This is best done at dropzones that teach alot of students (some of the big ones in CA, AZ and FL are best for this), as they have lots of very experienced instructors who can handle lots of different types of students. Now I'm not saying that smaller dropzones are bad (my home DZ is small but has many instructors with more than 20 yrs. experience, I really wanted to do my training there but ended up in FL instead), its just that the bigger dropzones that have more students are typically more well equipped.
Had this been the case for your neice she would have jumped appropriate gear, had additional training and been better equipped to handle her canopy problems.
I hope if she decides to jump again that she does a few things: 1. get health insurance, this should be a NO BRAINER! 2. gets life insurance that covers her death in the event of a skydiving accident (many do not), as she has a child to think of now 3. Get more than adequate training at a dropzone that does many AFF courses and does not allow her 'boy friend' to teach her again, and 4. uses appropriate gear for her size (not just the minimum, as she was using, but something HUGE and forgiving that will give her the approrpriate reaction time a student needs).
If you do decide to try the sport kathy, start with a tandem and realize that mistakes do happen. You can do everything right on a skydive (jump the right gear, react to problems the right way, do EVERYTHING correctly) and still have an accident like Shayna's or worse. For the number of jumps made by skydivers in the US in a given year we have few reported fatalities, but many smaller injuries such as broken bones are rarely reported. Despite what someone may tell you it is not safer to skydive than to drive. The amount of time spent doing skydives in a year are such a small percentage of the time compared to that of a typical person spends in the car.
Despite what someone may tell you it is not safer to skydive than to drive. The amount of time spent doing skydives in a year are such a small percentage of the time compared to that of a typical person spends in the car.
But doing a single tandem jump is safer than driving that year.
Kathy, each year a couple hundred thousand do a tandem jump. In a very good stretch at the beginning of the decade, there was one fatality in 3 years. But this year there were two passengers that died when the canopy collapsed near the ground due to turbulence.
If you want to just try it once to see how it feels, the odds should be better than 1 in 100,000 for death, somewhat higher for leg injuries on rougher landings. Driving is 1:6500 for the year for all America. For active skydivers, 1:1000 for the year.
You have to decide for yourself if this optional risk is worth it.
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billvon (D 16479)
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Dec 21, 2005, 10:35 AM
Post #209 of 216
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>But doing a single tandem jump is safer than driving that year.
But it is NOT safer than driving to the drop zone. You can play with stats all you want, but the oft-repeated saying that the skydive is safer than the drive to the DZ just isn't true (unless, of course, you drink a lot before driving home!)
>But doing a single tandem jump is safer than driving that year.
But it is NOT safer than driving to the drop zone. You can play with stats all you want, but the oft-repeated saying that the skydive is safer than the drive to the DZ just isn't true (unless, of course, you drink a lot before driving home!)
Yes, that is correct. As is the second part about the dangers of driving drunk.
But when talking with someone that is thinking about doing a tandem jump but fearful of death, it's not misleading to say that their car still is much more likely to kill them. It really is all about exposure time, and one jump with a TI is not that much exposure.
speaking of driving.... safety....skydiving... relationship and comparison. I was recently involved in a roll-over vehicle accident (rolled several times). I have NEVER been that scared skydiving, so I think I;m right that skydiving is safer!...... LOL... just could not resist following up with THAT story (told tongue in cheek)
speaking of driving.... safety....skydiving... relationship and comparison. I was recently involved in a roll-over vehicle accident (rolled several times). I have NEVER been that scared skydiving, so I think I;m right that skydiving is safer!...... LOL... just could not resist following up with THAT story (told tongue in cheek)
Your headlight blew out, so you reacted by swerving off the road into a tree and you're pissed that the airbags didn't fully inflate... and you don't have car insurance? Oh well, at least you're gonna drive again.
[don't worry, it's a complete joke... I'm not trying to draw a serious parallel. Driving analogies will never work properly]
(This post was edited by MB38 on Dec 21, 2005, 10:05 PM)
Very true.... I appreciate the humor. The fact is that only YOU can increase or decrease your risk in ANY activity by how you perform that activity. Good instruction, common sense, cool headedness, good equipment and well practiced emergency measures are the key. It's fairly easy to do anything that you set your mind to do if you study it and practice it properly. The real test is when problems are encountered while doing a particular activity.
Often times it's how you handle unexpected problems that can make the difference between life and death (or serious injuries and walking away). Training and repitition in a controlled environment prepare you for the unexpected. Remember: Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement! There are freak things that happen in any activity, but much of the time there are things that can be done to drastically reduce your risk.
We should ALL walk away from this experience with a renewed effort to practice (and teach) our emergency procedures, recognize correctable problems and know when to get rid of something that you cannot fix in time to possibly have to fix something else.
I've had my slider stick on my main before, pumping wasn't working so well. What actually freed it was a few pumps on the rears and some moderate shaking of both risers. Took close to 2000' to clear, was just below 2500 when i was in the saddle. That was my plan B after pumping the brakes didnt work, just remember, ALWAYS keep altitude aware. while playing with the risers i made sure to check altitude so i didnt do the genius 400ft cutaway. Just keep it all in mind when you further your career. Skydiving can be easy and fun, its hard and scary when things go wrong ;-) ...till your goggles fill up with blood!
I hear they are on a skydiving vacation at elsinore. Thought the locals might like to know so they could get autographs and such. Glad I didn't donate to that medical fund, would feel pretty cheated right about now.
Jan 13, 2006, 12:24 PM
Post #216 of 216
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Re: [SkiD_PL8] student accident REPOST FROM BONFIRE
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Can't Post
Okay - so I've been reading all the posts on Shayna and her incident, and I've had some thoughts on the subject, but I had no desire to waste my time posting....so why am I posting now? Because she was just on a local (I'm in Omaha) radio show talking about her experience. Throughout most of the interview (the part that I heard anyway) I was actually very impressed with her. At the very end, however, she totally disappointed me. The two wahoos asked her "did you think about suing the skydiving place?" Instead of saying "no," or "I knew the risks," or "it was no one's fault but my own," or any number of other things, she just laughed for a second and talked about how panicked she was!
There are two dropzones that pull students from the Omaha metro area and the tone of interview after that point was incredibly negative towards skydiving. Shayna didn't do anything to correct the host's misconceptions about the incident - and she had plenty of opportunities to do so.
Maybe I'm just fuming in the moment - this probably isn't worth my time to post either...it's just that I wanted to reach through the radio and slap her! If you (Shayna) really plan on returning to the sport -- then please do as little as you can to damage it while you're out of it. I don't blame you for your accident - I applaud you for surviving. I don't blame you for the initial rush of media interest that followed your story - it was natural. But I do blame you for further courting that media attention and for not using your time in the limelight to do damage-control. Don't come on a radio station near MY dropzone and giggle about suing another dropzone for an incident that was not their fault.
Whew, okay... got that out of my system! Sorry for venting.
Glad I didn't donate to that medical fund, would feel pretty cheated right about now. 
