Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
USPA and FAA reg violations

 

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apley  (D 28335)

Dec 8, 2005, 6:41 PM
Post #126 of 141 (2621 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
PM me the DZ name and maybe Airtwardo (the enforcer) and I will go undercover,

You 2 under cover, I gotta see this. Tongue

Sparky

what??!!! nick and airtwardo under the covers? what happens on dz.com, stays on dz.com...

seriously, excellent idea nick. you are the Man!


jloirsdaan  (C 35569)

Dec 8, 2005, 7:41 PM
Post #127 of 141 (2612 views)
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Re: [exnavykds] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay...this is a good thread. It went from a good discussion....too some drama...and is now back to a good discussion!

I actually think the bible analogy is good, and I agree that whats going on at this DZ definitely breaks the Ten Commandmants Wink. But thats my opinion...and opinions are like.....yeah I won't go there.

I agree that the SIM is just a guide....I think you'd rarely jump in Oklahoma and Northern TX (or probably anywhere) if you went strictly by what it recommended. The cloud thing is probably the biggest one....heck if I can see the general area I want to be in....I'm jumping......Laugh. But I do open at the correct altitude, do wave off, track for separation, check for traffic before exit (this kinda goes against the whole cloud deal though), etc. However.....I am a licensed skydiver...and the instructors I had did teach me how to make a safe jump....even if the equipment and some other things didn't actually allow it to actually go the way I/we were taught. All that aside...I know what I was taught...and can make a decision on when and how I jump and don't jump. What I find acceptable risk...whats to risky...etc. Students usually can't make an informed decision....and it should be up to us and USPA to make sure that they are taken care of and kept as safe as possible. Students usually don't know whats "safe" and unsafe early on, especially not on the first jump.


(This post was edited by jloirsdaan on Dec 8, 2005, 7:52 PM)


Schoenauer  (D License)

Dec 9, 2005, 9:37 PM
Post #128 of 141 (2552 views)
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Re: [exnavykds] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not going to dragged everyone into some hypothetical situation of what ifs. I know most of the BSRs and if I dont I know here to find them if I have question. As for the FAA regs I dont know them all only the important ones, seat belt use, night jump requirements, alcohol, cloud clearances for VFR, and reserve pack cycle. If I have a question about the FAA regs I know where to look also.

Where I stand if I bust a BSR or FAA reg my bad the DZ might catch hell but I am still going to pay, in some fashion. Now if I realize the DZ operation places me into a situation where a violation exists and I point it out to the DZO, in vain, I will go some place else. I have done it before.


exnavykds  (B 28231)

Dec 19, 2005, 3:52 PM
Post #129 of 141 (2445 views)
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Re: [Schoenauer] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if I realize the DZ operation places me into a situation where a violation exists and I point it out to the DZO, in vain, I will go some place else

I agree, and that's pretty much what happened here. The issues here, at least the ones I wittnessed, really only affected the students and not the licensed jumpers with their own equipment. As Jordan pointed out, first jump students generally don't read the SIM, don't know the difference between a Cypres AAD and a Sentinel AAD, and don't know the hazards of wingloading a reserve at 1.38:1. Maybe I was wrong, but I felt someone needed to speak up for the students.

Nobody, including myself, wants to see the DZ shut down. We just want to see it made a little safer.


skyfox69

Apr 11, 2009, 8:29 PM
Post #130 of 141 (2232 views)
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Re: [RayLosli] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

In order to add another 2 cents worth, I have been jumping for thirty (30) years and got to say that Pegasus DZ at Chickasha, OK is the WORSE DZ I have ever jumped at. It looked just like Fandango and the dzo runs it about the same. The student equipment needs to be placed in a bon fire and burned immediately. Old, very dirty, full of dust, looks like a cloud of smoke rising out of the equipment when a student puts it on. Altimeters and foam mounts appeared to have been pulled thru the mud and sand by the students when returning to the hangar. Canopies and the lines looked like they were used to keep Geronomo tired up while he was a prisoner at Ft Sill. So thin a blade of grass would easily slid thru the material.
This place is a accident waiting to happen.
There is not a manifest system in place whatsoever for experienced or student jumpers.
The aircraft look like they were flown thru a few flak traps and the dzo has patched the sheet metal every 5 feet or so to keep it together.
Got to watch him land dead stick one afternoon, since he forgot to put fuel in the aircraft prior to takeoffl Yep it is neat to see one land, roll out and stop with no sound.!!!!! Most of the instructors have left for other DZs, the DZO has run them off with his mouth. Doesnt have a clue on how to talk to people. All the students leave and jump at other DZs in the state. Sure wish the USPA or FAA would do something, but I doubt if anyone will take action.
I've moved long ago to a real safe and professional DZ. Take care
skyfox69


stratostar  (Student)

Apr 11, 2009, 8:48 PM
Post #131 of 141 (2223 views)
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Re: [skyfox69] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave, Don't hold back dude, tell us how you really feel.


LyraM45  (B 26378)

Apr 12, 2009, 12:29 AM
Post #132 of 141 (2187 views)
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Re: [RayLosli] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I would be TRULY interested with the opinions of other jumpers with a few more years of experience and jump #'s who skydive there. before making any decision of blatant Negligent Safety of jumpers.
Kevin you sound REALLY pissed off. I will tell you something when Looking back to the time when I myself had 75 jumps. I did not know my Ass from a hole in the Ground.
But Hey Now, look at you. All grown-up now. Quoting Regs. and passing judgment of your DZ's operations. I would be really interested in you posting some hard facts of what the Injury rate is there or even death rate @ YOUR DZ in question. Which is ? and WHO runs it ?
Now this is only my opinion but that list of petty self-inflated infractions is nothing and with only 75 jumps. You do not know enough to lay judgment on any DZ operations. No DZ or jumper likes a Nark and If this thread you started is not for a Troll....Shocked. (i smell Troll). Then you are well on your way to being Branded just that. If you don't like things there on that DZ then Hey like stated before in a post. "You are a paying customer." so maybe you better Move-On. If you are not happy then maybe attach your Newly Acquired jump skills and new found ethics of a sport and life style you have only started to dip your Big Toe in.

I don't care if you have 100 jumps or you have 1 million jumps. Even a good student should be able to spot what is safe and not safe right off the bat. (and if they can't, then maybe they shouldn't be jumping) Its not like there is grey area here where somebody with X-amount of jumps might be able to discern if its legal (or safe) or not. When it comes to Rules and Regs, either you're breaking them or you aren't. Even somebody who knows a little bit about aviation and can pull out a 2009 FAR/AIM with ZERO skydives can tell you some of these things.

The guy never said that this DZ was a menace to jumpers. Quite the opposite actually-- were you reading any of his posts where he kept repeating that this DZ is more than fine for licensed jumpers? And actually, I don't think he sounds pissed of at all, but rather concerned; just as I would be in his shoes. Its each of our duties to bring stuff like this to the table when its going down. If I saw a student go in at a DZ under a reserve canopy that was too small or an ADD that didn't work properly and either caused his death or may have prevented it in another situation-- and if I knew about all of that and never said anything??? Could you sleep at night knowing that that death could have been prevented if brothers and sisters in the sport stood up and said something about the causes of that fatality sooner???

There's no judgment being passed here. He's just stating what is being practiced at this DZ, and if that practice happens to be breaking BSR's or FAA regs, then that is that and the fault rests solely on the business executing those practices.


skyfox69

Apr 12, 2009, 1:24 PM
Post #133 of 141 (2135 views)
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Re: [LyraM45] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

You hit the nail directly on the head.

skyfox69


coreyangel  (C 38834)

Apr 12, 2009, 6:21 PM
Post #134 of 141 (2043 views)
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Re: [LyraM45] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

[replyI don't care if you have 100 jumps or you have 1 million jumps. Even a good student should be able to spot what is safe and not safe right off the bat..
I can't agree with you more. I stopped jumping at Pegasus after about 13 jumps and never looked back.






labrys  (D 29848)

Nov 4, 2009, 5:54 PM
Post #137 of 141 (1637 views)
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Re: [LyraM45] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Even a good student should be able to spot what is safe and not safe right off the bat.

What should an average student be expected to spot?

Quote:
Even somebody who knows a little bit about aviation and can pull out a 2009 FAR/AIM with ZERO skydives can tell you some of these things.

Should average students be expected to come into the game knowing anything at all about aviation?

Hell, I'm a pretty smart person and I was so pumped about my first skydive that I actually didn't think about the fact that I was going to also get a plane ride until after I showed up at the DZ.


CJosJumper  (C License)

Apr 27, 2014, 2:38 PM
Post #138 of 141 (864 views)
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Re: [labrys] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

Just read through all the posts. Looks like the last was Apr. 2009. I found the thread because I had just heard about a serious accident at Pegasus Air in Chickasha, OK. Apr. 2014.
They only do SL, AFF, IAD instruction. No Tandem. From what could learn from their web site, they prefer first time jumpers to do Static Line. They also allow ages 16 and up. The jumper was 16 female. Had good opening at 3500 ft. but with a mild right hand turn. That remained the same all the way to the ground with no flare. Broke alot of major bones and will have a full , but long, recovery. Not all the information is out yet but if Pegasus was still not always using radio to talk down beginning students then it looks like the student froze up. DZO thinks there will be a lawsuit. Ya, like duh. BTW- the dropzone is for sale land, buildings, two cesna 182 s, and all equipment. $ 250,000 Pegasus Air Sports.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 27, 2014, 6:09 PM
Post #139 of 141 (760 views)
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Re: [CJosJumper] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

and?


topdocker  (D 12018)

Apr 28, 2014, 10:52 PM
Post #140 of 141 (621 views)
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Re: [CJosJumper] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

CJosJumper wrote:
Just read through all the posts. Looks like the last was Apr. 2009. I found the thread because I had just heard about a serious accident at Pegasus Air in Chickasha, OK. Apr. 2014.
They only do SL, AFF, IAD instruction. No Tandem. From what could learn from their web site, they prefer first time jumpers to do Static Line. They also allow ages 16 and up. The jumper was 16 female. Had good opening at 3500 ft. but with a mild right hand turn. That remained the same all the way to the ground with no flare. Broke alot of major bones and will have a full , but long, recovery. Not all the information is out yet but if Pegasus was still not always using radio to talk down beginning students then it looks like the student froze up. DZO thinks there will be a lawsuit. Ya, like duh. BTW- the dropzone is for sale land, buildings, two cesna 182 s, and all equipment. $ 250,000 Pegasus Air Sports.

Hey troll! How's the bridge you are living under? Or is it a rock?

top


CJosJumper  (C License)

Apr 29, 2014, 4:33 PM
Post #141 of 141 (483 views)
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Re: [topdocker] USPA and FAA reg violations [In reply to] Can't Post

My appologies. I thought I was on a different thread / forum and miss posted . Sometimes us old farts screw up.


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