Jul 11, 2005, 1:33 PM
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Re: [Shark] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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I understand what you are getting at, but do you really believe that AFFIs at both Perris and Elsinore rarely tunnel?
Actually yes. And even if they have "tunneled" many have not taken the time to learn how to coach or instruct in a "different" enviorment. (Unlike yourself of course)
Heck I've had experienced AFF-I's want to side body their students in the tunnel before they can even achieve stability. Not only is it not safe, but it's poor learning.
The nice thing is, we've learned (including those of ust that are not AFF-I's) to work with AFF-I's who wish to bring their students, to share the responsibility of instructing people to the point where they and begin to get the benifit of having their instructor in the air with them.
Jul 11, 2005, 1:56 PM
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Re: [arlo] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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for instructors keeping students in the tunnel for more than 1 minute at a time: do you find that this decreases their altitude awareness because their internal clock (that's now being created) fakes them into expecting longer freefall times due to these extended "freefall" times in the tunnel? i've talked to alot of guys that started skydiving in conjunction with tunnel flying and several thought they had more time than they actually did during the skydives. just curious if you consider this to be a potential issue.
Not really, but because I've thought about it, one of the techniques I use is as the student gains proficiency in manuvers I begin to throw the "circle of awareness", or check altitude signal about ever 5 or 6 seconds or after each manuver and look for a response just to build in the habit.
(This post was edited by diablopilot on Jul 11, 2005, 1:58 PM)
Jul 11, 2005, 5:50 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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one of the techniques I use is as the student gains proficiency in manuvers I begin to throw the "circle of awareness", or check altitude signal about ever 5 or 6 seconds or after each manuver and look for a response just to build in the habit.
<thumbs up> Very good AFFI, JP! <pats JP on the back and buys him a ...>
Jul 12, 2005, 12:59 AM
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Re: [ltdiver] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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one of the techniques I use is as the student gains proficiency in manuvers I begin to throw the "circle of awareness", or check altitude signal about ever 5 or 6 seconds or after each manuver and look for a response just to build in the habit.
<thumbs up> Very good AFFI, JP! <pats JP on the back and buys him a ...>
ltdiver
I had Skylord in the tube and gave him a COA every so often, then found myself looking at my "altimeter," which of course, wasn't there.
Jul 12, 2005, 5:42 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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This is nuts, people. We're only talking basic stability here. Let the tunnel flying expert do the teaching in the tunnel. Let the AFFI do the training in the real air. It's about tunnel qualifications, not AFF qualifications. More power to the instructor with both, but they should do it because of the tunnel experience, not the other.
There is a big difference in how you handle un unstable student in the tunnel vs. in the air.
I would not let an tunnel rat do AFF without a rating, and I would not let an AFF guy teach in the tunnel without being checked out.
Different tools and skills are needed.
Now yes, if you have both skills in either environment...Then it would not matter.
Jul 12, 2005, 7:53 AM
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Re: [Ron] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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Hey Ron, Thanks for the offer, but we're already committed to Chester, SC this weekend at Skydive Carolina!! We're donating up to 30 free minutes of tunnel time for the auction/raffle, and we'll be sittin by a video display most of the weekend!
Maybe you could stop by Chester
Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS Delegate
(This post was edited by Bodyflight.Net on Jul 12, 2005, 7:54 AM)
Jul 13, 2005, 10:55 AM
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Re: [arlo] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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Arlo swearing and stuff is worth replying to just for fun.
I've sent several students to the tunnel at Perris because they just weren't getting it. They almost all (one exception) came back confident and fixed.
We had a guy come back from either 15 or 30 minutes just recently who fell OK, but just completely world record screwed up his deployment. The video is incredible. He looks for his handle and front loops, then does something incredible and barrel rolls, deploys the drogue through his legs which then opens him so hard he loops right over the top of the risers doing whatever the aerial version of a step-through is. Is there a word for that maneuver?
Anyhow, tunnel teaching is for tunnel teachers. I like the tunnel and learn a lot in it when I'm down that way.
I'd suggest you do a 15 minute series on how to pass the AFF, but John, Dom, SM1 and company, it sounds like you are. I think it's a plus for tunnel instructors to be AFF instructors too. I think there would be more awareness of what stuff done in the tunnel could translate into during a freefall.
JP
Hey! Do you have a practice rip cord rig? I know nobody wants any extra stuff in there, but having a harness with a handle or hackey to practice touching while maintaining body position would be GRRRRRReat!
Jul 13, 2005, 11:07 AM
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Re: [Deuce] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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Arlo swearing and stuff is worth replying to just for fun.
I've sent several students to the tunnel at Perris because they just weren't getting it. They almost all (one exception) came back confident and fixed.
We had a guy come back from either 15 or 30 minutes just recently who fell OK, but just completely world record screwed up his deployment. The video is incredible. He looks for his handle and front loops, then does something incredible and barrel rolls, deploys the drogue through his legs which then opens him so hard he loops right over the top of the risers doing whatever the aerial version of a step-through is. Is there a word for that maneuver?
Anyhow, tunnel teaching is for tunnel teachers. I like the tunnel and learn a lot in it when I'm down that way.
I'd suggest you do a 15 minute series on how to pass the AFF, but John, Dom, SM1 and company, it sounds like you are. I think it's a plus for tunnel instructors to be AFF instructors too. I think there would be more awareness of what stuff done in the tunnel could translate into during a freefall.
JP
Hey! Do you have a practice rip cord rig? I know nobody wants any extra stuff in there, but having a harness with a handle or hackey to practice touching while maintaining body position would be GRRRRRReat!
Jul 13, 2005, 5:52 PM
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Re: [Shark] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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one of the techniques I use is as the student gains proficiency in manuvers I begin to throw the "circle of awareness", or check altitude signal about ever 5 or 6 seconds or after each manuver and look for a response just to build in the habit.
<thumbs up> Very good AFFI, JP! <pats JP on the back and buys him a ...>
ltdiver
I had Skylord in the tube and gave him a COA every so often, then found myself looking at my "altimeter," which of course, wasn't there.
i wasn't familiar with coa's, so she tapped her wrist. for a split second i thought she was asking the time i looked at my wrist, looked up/saw the thumbs up... "ahhh ok, alti checks!"
Jul 13, 2005, 6:35 PM
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Re: [heidihagen] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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i wasn't familiar with coa's, so she tapped her wrist. for a split second i thought she was asking the time i looked at my wrist, looked up/saw the thumbs up... "ahhh ok, alti checks!"
Jul 15, 2005, 12:36 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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The nice thing is, we've learned (including those of ust that are not AFF-I's) to work with AFF-I's who wish to bring their students, to share the responsibility of instructing people to the point where they and begin to get the benifit of having their instructor in the air with them. Hey JP... :) Im one of those that is not an AFF-I... I feel my job as an instructor while working with an AFF-I is to make the absolute most out of the session by keeping the student on heading and not wasting time... some students have very great body positions right out the door and some don't... for those who don't, I like to fix it while I'm already in such a great position to do so... and then turn them toward the AFF-I. The nets a great tool too.
Aug 6, 2005, 11:14 PM
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Re: [marks] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
Yes
Well, Mark and the rest of you guys were right!! I FINALLY PASSED Level 4!!!!
I went to the Perris wind tunnel two weeks ago and was coached by Ed Dickinson. He got my primary problem figured out and solved within the first 2-4 minutes. We worked for 25 minutes. I was too sore to do any more the next day, but the third morning I went back and flew another 10 minutes just to be sure i had gotten the hang of it. I had! The next opportunity to actually jump did not come until today--- I was a little bit afraid that after 2 weeks I might have forgotten what I learned there, but I remembered and reminded myself of something that both Ed and Scott told me there: my muscles would remember what I had learned. Ed was such a great communicator in the tunnel, with all those great facial expressions of his. Wow, communication is everything! He inspired and encouraged me so much in my attitudes toward skydiving in general outside the tunnel. Scott encouraged me to put the past failures behind me and pretend that my time in the tunnel and the success I experienced there was my new beginning. That really brightened my perspective.
So, today I passed Level 4, AND even passed Level 5. I owe it all to the tunnel, and especially Ed, Scott, and the three tunnel instructors who worked with me: Mary, Brad, and the tall drink of water with the red hair whose name I never learned!
So thanks to all who contributed to this thread and said to Go For It!
Aug 7, 2005, 8:43 PM
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Re: [MB38] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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Wow, you're so lucky to be close to the tunnel. If you use it, you probably won't have to repeat ANY of your levels. I figured I spent at least $2200 just for the Level 4 repeats plus the trip to Perris. Incredible! If I had only gone to the tunnel sooner, I could've saved myself close to $700.
Live and learn...
I'm just happy to have finally made it over this hump!
Aug 9, 2005, 1:58 PM
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Re: [Mockingbird] Will a wind tunnel help me pass AFF Level 4?
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I’m so glad you passed. I told you, it’s the Magic Tunnel! Now you will blow through all you student dives and then rock as a newbie A licensed skydiver. The bad news is that you’re going to have urges to go to the tunnel on a regular basis. I still get them…in fact, I’m going to the tunnel next month. It’s been like 4 months since my last visit!
...
> 
i looked at my wrist, looked up/saw the thumbs up... "ahhh ok, alti checks!"
