Sorry folks, But I cannot follow mr. groper's logic either. If AADs and RSLs are mandatory for students who plan to open between 4500' and 3000' - why would an experienced jumper dis-connect/dis-able them at the same altitudes? Or would you prefer to hear a really scary story about the stupid student I had back in 1984?
>As long as you can track away at let's say 4000 ft, what's the > problem?
That's the problem. People plan for, say, three points then breakoff, which is no problem at all from an Otter from 5000 feet. Then they exit the balloon and spend the first five seconds flopping around in the subterminal air, then slowly build the first point, then the second and third, and they're at 2500. I've seen this happen at least once a year at Quincy from the helicopter.
It's no problem if you have done it before and know what to expect, but I don't recommend RW on your first balloon (or helicopter) jump unless you have decent altitude.
jumping out of a balloon at 4500 AGL, the cypress wouldn't have done me any good anyway, and if it would've fired, i would have had a mess, the RSL dissconnection because in the event of a mal at such low altitude, if i had to ct-away, i didn't want a possible entanglement. if ya'll remember in the past, i have stated that on certain dives, i will dissconnect my auxillary safety gear.
Seems to me that jumping a balloon where you might have a low malfuntion is the exact scenario that the RSL was designed for.
RSL's were designed to save your ass during a low malfunction and cuttaway. That is their primary purpose. Saving people who forget to pull the second handle (or can't find it), is just an added benefit.
billvon (D 16479)
Jun 28, 2002, 10:01 AM
Post #31 of 75
> But I don't see what the downside of having them active during that > jump vs. any other jump would be.
I don't think there is any additional risk, just the usual (small) risk that they will cause problems (misfire etc) which you have on any jump. Since you are less likely to need an AAD on a solo low jump, it may be that some people feel that the benefit of AAD usage is not worth the risk. It's not that the risks are greater, it's that the benefit is less.
I also do a reserve and main pin check before every jump and thats about it......like everyone else stated I dont want someone trying to tuc something in somewhere where I usaully dont tuc it.....unless something feels goofy I'll just leave it at that!!
**RSL's were designed to save your ass during a low malfunction and cuttaway. That is their primary purpose. Saving people who forget to pull the second handle (or can't find it), is just an added benefit.**
i'm in a class above these you speak of. not that something CAN'T happen to me, but if it does, it won't be because i forgot to pull, or couldn't find my handle. if i go in, everything will have been pulled, if i were not sure of this, i wouldn't skydive at all. another reason i posted what i did, it's up to each individual what, if any safety equipment you employ, i knew when i said i dissconnected my RSL, there would be a barrage of people stating it was ignorant, or unwise to do so, that's exactly what happened! i'm not surprised, some of who made statements about it, are the same ones who have bashed the improvazation of RSL's in the past, funny, ain't it? GOTCHA!
i forgot to add, that the reason i did not activate my AAD (and all who know me, know i'm pro-AAD) is because we were in a balloon, with a pilot, and a radio i'd NEVER seen before, i was actually sceptical about an accidental discharge of my AAD with a radio system i'd never been around before, i did not know what power/amps/frequency he was on, and didn't have time to research the matter. plus the basket was small, and the heat from the heat sheild was incredibly hot, and i was not sure what effect, if any, this would have on my AAD. so in my mind, since it was my equipment, and my jump, and my life, i took what precautions i thought were necessary, personal decision, you get the drift.
(This post was edited by rgoper on Jun 28, 2002, 4:25 PM)
quade (D 22635)
Jun 28, 2002, 4:24 PM
Post #34 of 75
Really? It sort of sounds like you're bragging about how competent you are. Also, it doesn't sound like you're setting logical traps for people just to make them think, it sounds like you're trying to justify an opinion that isn't shared by most people.
you know me better than that. i don't care what other's think, you know that. go back and read my edited posts, maybe this will bring more clarity to my logic. as far as the popular stuff goes.......RIGHT. and YES, i am bragging about being a tad sharper than most, is it a crime to be so confident? go ahead, shoot me then! i've faced far more dangerous situations than most men still alive with oilwell fires, equipment, and lives being destroyed all around the place, be afraid? not the kid, confident? of course, if your not....go home, your much safer there.
well guys, I was going to write a post about this today, but it seems I was beaten to it. PIN AND HACKEY CHECKS ARE CRUCIAL IN THE PLANE (especially in cessna's). Just today, I was in a cessna and had a two-way planned. I was sitting student, next to the pilot, and the guy in front of me was moving around a bit. Somehow, my hackey got stuck, and (the only time I forgot to do a pin check) I went to get out and I felt pulling. At first I thought the wind was stronger than normal, then I was being pulled back into the plane by the pilot. He, thank God, was paying attention and saw that my pilot chute was almost completely out of the boc. Please, especially in small planes take the time to at least reach around and check your stuff. I could have hurt people other than myself due to ignorance and complacency. I definately won't make that mistake twice. What if it had been stuck and the pilot didn't notice? I really feel like an idiot for not taking the 3 seconds to check myself. So, I just wanted to share that with you all. Please don't assume your gear is in place, make sure.
billvon (D 16479)
Jun 29, 2002, 9:08 PM
Post #39 of 75
>i'm in a class above these you speak of. not that something CAN'T > happen to me . . .
Have you done a few cutaways? I usually recommend people use an RSL until they have some experience with the real thing; then they are in a much better position to make their own decisions.
>but if it does, it won't be because i forgot to pull, or couldn't find my > handle.
The best skydivers and instructors in the world have forgotten to pull. or couldn't find their handle. It can happen no matter how good you think you are.
>i knew when i said i dissconnected my RSL, there would be a barrage > of people stating it was ignorant. . .
No one stated it was ignorant. Several people said it makes no sense to them; there's no reason to think that it will cause more trouble on a balloon jump than on a regular skydive. But using an RSL or not using one is your decision.
>plus the basket was small, and the heat from the heat sheild was >incredibly hot, and i was not sure what effect, if any, this would have >on my AAD.
I suspect that a radiant heat source that could damage your AAD would melt your reserve first. Sunlight is 1000 watts per square meter of radiant energy, and from experience, exposure to that for several hours does not cause observable problems.
>so in my mind, since it was my equipment, and my jump, and my > life, i took what precautions i thought were necessary, personal > decision, you get the drift.
And there's no problem with that; you get to choose which ones you use. You specifically asked for other people's opinions on your decisions - don't be suprised when you get them.
The best skydivers and instructors in the world have forgotten to pull. or couldn't find their handle.
The guy who taught me to jump used to say "keep pulling handles 'til your goggles fill up with blood." He went in on a tandem with only the drogue out; no handles were pulled (this was pre-Cypres days....). He wasn't a world class skydiver... but he was a tandem examiner and extremely current.
**(a) learn a bit more about the gear you're jumping, (b) reconsider why you use it. and (c) reconsider exactly what you expect it to do.**
to ease your mind, i know every mechanical aspect of my gear, and it's components. i do everything but lengthen my brake lines, and re-pack my reserve. sorry your under the wrong impression, at which i concluded by your statement.
by the way, i stand by my statement, if there was any doubt in my mind i would not pull all the handles in the event of a severe mal, i honestly would quit the sport. in my opinion, if anyone else feels there is a chance that they may not pull all the handles, maybe some more training, or pursuit of another hobby? sky diving commands confidence, of which i've plenty of. i'm not by any means saying something cannot happen to me, but i'm that sure of myself, it's a good feeling.
(This post was edited by rgoper on Jun 30, 2002, 6:46 PM)
why you don't check the pin on your own? Just be a little bit flexible with your body. Do you always have to wake up the people in the aircraft to annoy them because you are too lazy do do it yourself?
y the way, i stand by my statement, if there was any doubt in my mind i would not pull all the handles in the event of a severe mal, i honestly would quit the sport. in my opinion, if anyone else feels there is a chance that they may not pull all the handles, maybe some more training, or pursuit of another hobby? sky diving commands confidence, of which i've plenty of. i'm not by any means saying something cannot happen to me, but i'm that sure of myself, it's a good feeling.
I'll bet Tom Piras thought the same thing you do when he turned his CYPRES off before his last jump.
"Do you always have to wake up the people in the aircraft to annoy them because you are too lazy do do it yourself? ----------------------------------------------- PIN AND HACKEY CHECKS ARE CRUCIAL IN THE PLANE (especially in cessna's).
Answer your question brutha?! Surely you were just trolling, but in a cessna you spend 25 - 35 minutes cramped & moving around trying to stay the least bit comfortable (that is if you can't sleep). You mean to tell me that you don't see any possibility of the pilot-chute getting snagged or the closing pin working itself out!? As for reaching back and feeling the pin yourself, there are short people in this world, who generally come with short arms (my wife for one probably couldn't reach her closing pin with her rig on), so not everyone is able to check it in the plane themselves. There have been open containers in airplanes before, there will be again! Wise up!
**I'll bet Tom Piras thought the same thing you do when he turned his CYPRES off before his last jump.**
maybe, maybe not. one thing is for certain, you'll NEVER know, one way or the other.
True, you can't tell what someone is thinking, BUT we do know what he SAID when he turned it off. And we know what Sandy Wambach SAID about her decision not to use a AAD. These were VERY experienced and accomplished skydivers.
PhreeZone (D License)
Jul 3, 2002, 10:45 AM
Post #48 of 75
Prof... is there somewhere that explains Toms story in detail? I've only heard tidbits but would like to understand the entire events. I've read enough that I understand Sandys events, but I've never understood Toms...
**True, you can't tell what someone is thinking, BUT we do know what he SAID when he turned it off. And we know what Sandy Wambach SAID about her decision not to use a AAD. These were VERY experienced and accomplished skydivers.**
just so there's no mistake here, i am pro aad, and pro rsl. i generally utilize all of my safety equipment. having said that, what i do when i jump, and i've said it before, is of no concern to anyone other than myself, unless it's endangering other's. you mentioned that the 2 skydivers that are no longer with us? made statements about their equipment, so are you saying that's why there no longer with us? i also understood you to say they were VERY EXPERIENCED, and accomplished jumpers.....and? i've never hurt myself, or anyone else, and although i'm not an "up" jumper, i have attended my BIC, and USPA coaches course, so i can say that i am making every effort, in good faith to be safe, stay safe, and try to make a difference in someone else's sky diving carreer as well. as far as your opinions concerning me, if your expressing them for my benefit, your wasting your time, and mine, your opinions are insignificant to me. on the other hand, if your expressing them for your own benifit, carry on then, just don't address me while your doing it. i'm not trying to be a wiseacre, but you do tend to "stick your nose" where it doesn't belong at times. please do not percieve this statement in any other way than in the spirit it is offered. have a great day! now we can be friends again!