Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
On your back for tandem openings??

 


airborne82nd  (C License)

May 23, 2005, 2:01 PM
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On your back for tandem openings?? Can't Post

Does anyone go on there back for the openings??

I am infont of the tandem they give a wave and as the go through the trapt door and the bag comes off the go below my level. Then as they go by i do a barrel roll keeping them in the shot till i am on my back then i sit there watching them open 5-6 seconds and then i roll back over and track and open.

i dont go under the tandem like some do

does anyone else do the barrol roll or back fly for the openings or do most knee fly or go high on there shins and get it that way.

i think some others have double jointed necks.

That footage where the vid is on his back underneath and the deploy go down through the trapt door at the vid guy and then snatch up is awesome. ill never do it to risky but it does look awesome.

anyone do anything intersting to catch the opening?????


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 23, 2005, 2:11 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
As opposed to the barrel roll, try 1/2 of a back loop as they go by. This keeps you from having the pic. rotate 180 in the frame.

Also, once you are on your back, try back tracking as it will allow you to start your track sooner, and film the opening longer, and ultimately get yourself open sooner.


jimoke  (D 20444)

May 23, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

at my dz tandems get out last, some days going on your back to film the tandem opening means you won't make it back to the lz. make sure you know not only your altitude.... but where "you" are above the ground.
off field landings can suck all for a few seconds of footage.
Stay Safe,
jimoke


airborne82nd  (C License)

May 23, 2005, 2:18 PM
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Re: [davelepka] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah i back track like that but i dont have the skill to do a 1/2 back loop, that must look awesome i could just imagine how that looks.

i should practice that in the tunnel and go out and perfect it then i can do it with tandems.

very cool

thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 23, 2005, 2:39 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Just pull your knees up to your chest, and look up to follow them as they deploy. As you rotate to upright, get your hands behind you (kind like a sit-fly thing), and you're there. Keep your legs knida in and together, if you let them get too far out, the wind will catch them, and you'll end up doing the complete back loop.

Once you are stable, as in you've stopped the rotational momentum, go ahead and strech out into your back track. After a weekend of practice, it will all happen in one smooth movement.

In regards to the other comment. about back tracking, and being far out, and not making it back, you need to have some separation of some kind from your tandem regardless of your spot. Be it vertical or horizontal, either way, you just cannot dump so soon after the tandem that you don't have time to get a little footage.

He says it's a shame to land off just for a few seconds of footage. I say it's a shame to dump too close to a tandem just to avoid landing off, and I'm right.


FlyinseivLP2  (D 18628)

May 23, 2005, 3:37 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you can't do a half loop to your back, then you have no buisness in the air with a tandem IMO.


YahooLV  (D License)

May 23, 2005, 3:39 PM
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Re: [FlyinseivLP2] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you can't do a half loop to your back, then you have no buisness in the air with a tandem IMO.

Ditto!


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
May 23, 2005, 3:41 PM
Post #8 of 43 (1993 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Going from belly to sit to back while watching somebody deploy is a winner as is doing a bit of a back track to get some sep.

HOWEVER -- ALWAYS make sure you're belly to earth when you deploy. ALWAYS. Not in the process of getting belly to earth, but actually belly to earth.

We have too much crap on our heads to even think about it any other way.


airborne82nd  (C License)

May 23, 2005, 4:48 PM
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Re: [FlyinseivLP2] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

FlyinseivLP2
there is one ass in every crowd who decides to run his mouth for no other reason but to be an idiot, thanks for adding nothing to the discusssion.

you win the ( if you were at my dz you would get a blanket party ) award.

of course i can do a half back loop i fly on my back.

in fact out of the 7 different cam people at my dz there are only 2 of us that fly on our backs and 3 of us dont wear wings.

i am sure all can fly on there back but they dont like to the other cam people are belly flyers.

the other guy who flys on his back goes under the tandem, i dont.

its about style & comfort and what you like to do.

I can do a half back loop but doing it a few feet from a tandem and keeping them perfectly in the shot. so till i work that out but i am greatful for davepleaka for sugesting a cool deployment shot.

i dont land off and i dont track for too long so thanks for addressing the tracking and landing off, I understand that and take great care that doesnt happen. so thanks for the comment JIMOKE i really appreciate it.

thanks to those who gave a normal, functional, inteligent, insightful and relevent advice.

hats off to ou for sharing your expereince.


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

May 23, 2005, 5:06 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I also like the back to earth opening shot, and it is kind of cool to see my feet in the frame as I back track away. I have done both the half barrel role and the half a back loop, it all depends on the speed of the TM for me. Sometimes the back-loop method pops me up, so I do the barrel role, like a half-ass pomal-horse kind of move. Attached is a shot with my feet in the view. I have a small avi file of a transition. I could send it to you if you like, it is from a customer who took his camera up and took shots of me while I took shots of him.

By the way, those trap door shots are killer when they work!!

Arvel


(This post was edited by BlueSBDeath on May 23, 2005, 5:08 PM)
Attachments: IMG_0293 (Large).JPG (50.3 KB)


airborne82nd  (C License)

May 23, 2005, 5:16 PM
Post #11 of 43 (1957 views)
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

that is phenominal

unreal that is sooooo great man what a shot wow!!!!!!

man you can feel that picture huh man that guy was stoked

hey i love the avi's do you have a website??

any good video websites ?? out there???


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

May 23, 2005, 5:37 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not have a web site, I guess I should look into doing that Crazy

It would make sharing a little easyer.


Zee  (D 18608)

May 23, 2005, 5:47 PM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice shot, Arvel! I like filming the openings on my back as well - I just flip around the opposite way.

Peace,
Z


(This post was edited by Zee on May 23, 2005, 5:48 PM)
Attachments: MikeZ01.JPG (65.3 KB)


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

May 23, 2005, 5:59 PM
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Re: [Zee] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sweet Shot ZEE!!! Wink

Do you just continue tracking past them in that direction? I have always worried about a TM cut-a-way when I find myself under them, but I know I/we are a little bit away from them. Still it is on my mind.

Arvel


Zee  (D 18608)

May 23, 2005, 6:19 PM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sweet Shot ZEE!!! Wink

Do you just continue tracking past them in that direction? I have always worried about a TM cut-a-way when I find myself under them, but I know I/we are a little bit away from them. Still it is on my mind.

Arvel

Thanks, Arvel. Kevin "Kevlar" Mitchell took that shot a few years back when I was doing a tandem video for friend of mine.

I stay in front of them until the tandem opens and then I stretch out - That way I can see if something goes wrong and take action accordingly.



Peace,
Z


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
May 24, 2005, 12:51 AM
Post #16 of 43 (1860 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
FlyinseivLP2
there is one ass in every crowd who decides to run his mouth for no other reason but to be an idiot, thanks for adding nothing to the discusssion.

Please read the forum rules.

Keep it civil or get the bumped out of the forum. Your choice.


j3zz  (C 104441)

May 24, 2005, 1:03 AM
Post #17 of 43 (1858 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Slightly off topic but makes for a sweet shot

Pop up a Bit do a 180 and and start tracking away looking back you can keep them in frame then just keep you head focussed on them and do a 1/2 front loop, basically a dive that just slips,

You get a really cool sequence

Jezz


rhys  (D 95)

May 24, 2005, 1:22 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

this one is a little different but i do it every time. for me it is about the photos. so as soon as the ripcord is pulled i rotate on the 'cartwheel axis' 90 degrees so the photo has the tandem pair, the linestrech and the drouge in. profile styes. i was doing this with a 28mm until i had my 16mm it is much easier to get the framing now


DaGimp  (D 26522)

May 24, 2005, 5:14 AM
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Re: [rhys] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

i do a barrel roll under the tandem to film the opening and stay on my back until the canopy is open. We jump Sigmas, so no trap door.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

May 24, 2005, 9:00 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I do a half backflip. I tried doing a barrelroll but couldn't keep them framed properly.

I throw myself backwards and lean deeply into my wings to stop the rotation. It works.

Depending on the spot I'll hold that from anywhere from half a second to two seconds, then flip to my belly, deeep wings to slow me down, then deploy.

_Am


skinnyshrek  (D 25109)

May 24, 2005, 9:05 AM
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Re: [DaGimp] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

i go into a sit then on my back. Try waving at the tandem as your on your back. The tandems seem to love it. Either that or its a sympathy laugh...lol Hey Gimpy boy! You going to skyfest?


tqsmile  (D 855)

May 24, 2005, 2:16 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

WHEN I SEE THE TM SAY CHEERS TO ME I POP UP A LITTLE AND AS THEY PASS ME I FLIP ON MY BACK AND TRACK UNDER AND AWAY. YOU GET A GOOD VID SEQUENCE AND SOME COOL STILLS


freekflyguy  (D 11658)

May 24, 2005, 2:51 PM
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Re: [DaGimp] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

We have Sigma's too, they still have the trap door.

Buzz


AggieDave  (D License)

May 24, 2005, 3:37 PM
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Re: [freekflyguy] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
We have Sigma's too, they still have the trap door.

Right, its just not nearly as bad as a Vector or a Racer tandem (I'm going to assume not as bad as the Strong either, but I've never jumped one so I couldn't say).

To those that posted pics, those are some badass pics, good flying.

Personally I like the shot gained from the video guy staying on his belly, but popping up and back out of the burble during deployment, then sliding slightly to the side to let the tandem pair accelerate past during the beginning of canopy flight while the canopy is opening. Its a neat visual and looks really neat on video.


linestretch  (D 21060)

May 24, 2005, 6:53 PM
Post #25 of 43 (1666 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's really about what works for you, and you doing a damn good job at it. Before filming on my back, I would do the roll. The shot looks sweet. But I like filming on my back, and it gives a different perspective. Here's 3 shots, first 2 rolling, and the last on my back. Rough opening for #3.


docjohn  (D 13182)

May 24, 2005, 7:46 PM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

That is one kick ass photo. Good job


Jskydiver22  (C 34942)

May 25, 2005, 6:51 PM
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Re: [FlyinseivLP2] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem??? Crazy

I prefer to go on my bad when im filming any kind of deployments but thats just me.


sdctlc  (D 16437)

May 25, 2005, 8:24 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I do both Tandems and shoot Video. When I am shooting video I usually prefer to pop up at the wave off looking down at the tandem then as the trap door takes effect. I then shoot the canopy opening right in front of me then as it catches I fall past the tandem pair, in frame, and roll on my back and give the "peace" sign, again in frame but usually under the tandem in the shot....the visual looks great. I have never been in a position that if the Tandem had a problem I would have been close. I usually fall for a good 5-6 sec before I turn back over and the result is tons of separation..... When I turn over I move to the side in case there is an issue. when out of the 182 I am usually spotting so I am not worried about the exit or opening. On bigger planes I take a quick look during the fall to see where we are and kinda "talk" to the TM if we are WAY OFF.... I am sure that others do the same... Anyway, I like the roll on the back shot for the opening......

Scott C.


skysurfcam  (F 446)

May 26, 2005, 4:51 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

No trapdoor at all on the Strong Smile


IvanPeters  (D 101434)

May 26, 2005, 6:22 AM
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Re: [Jskydiver22] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem??? Crazy

He was not saying that is is important to do a half loop. He was suggesting that if you don't have the general flying skills to be able to do a half loop then maybe you don't have the general flying skills to be near a tandem.

I don't have an opinion on this as I don't remember ever trying to do a half loop in a camera suit and I don't film tandems anyway. But I'm going to give it a go at the earliest opportunity and then I'll decide if I agree or disagree. Wink

Ivan


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 26, 2005, 6:51 AM
Post #31 of 43 (1063 views)
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Re: [Jskydiver22] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer

No, but it makes them a bad photographer. Ignoring all the shots/angles made possible by flying on your back, you severly limit your pallet.

If you want to shoot the same video sequence on every jump, eventually you would be good AT THAT. If you want to react to the situation presented to you (lighting, clouds, passenger, etc) and shoot the best video for that individual jump, you need to have and use a full compliment of skills.

Hey look, Norm Kent and Gus Wing seem to prefer sit/back flying. Nuff' said.


FlyinseivLP2  (D 18628)

May 26, 2005, 12:49 PM
Post #32 of 43 (1028 views)
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Re: [Jskydiver22] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why is it important to be able to do a half loop onto your back? If a videographer doesn't want to video on their back that doesnt make them a bad flyer. Some camera flyers do awesome tandem videos that I know that don't go on there back. So how does it make them not qualified to be in the air with a tandem??? Crazy

I prefer to go on my bad when im filming any kind of deployments but thats just me.


What Ivan said is corrrect. I meant that you don't have the skill to do that(as the original post said) than you don't have the skill to be in the air with a tandem. IMO


CTSkydiver  (D 18461)

May 27, 2005, 12:58 AM
Post #33 of 43 (982 views)
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Re: [jimoke] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
some days going on your back to film the tandem opening means you won't make it back to the lz.
jimoke

Wow Jim, you don't say?
Coupled with a mal and chop, you're awfully right. I Think Dave G. posted the vid.


DJL  (C License)

May 27, 2005, 12:07 PM
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I back track because I believe it to be the best way to gain separation, ensure an open tandem canopy, and provide a very good piece of video for the end of freefall. By the time the tandem is fully open I've already gained enough ground to just roll, dearch, and deploy.

Where I am during tandem deployment dictates how I fly into the back track, whether it's rolling or flipping. I'm usually on the main deployment side and as they pull I roll my outside shoulder under and carve in front of them and then continue with the back track.


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 27, 2005, 6:30 PM
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Re: [DJL] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because of the trap door effect, I do a pseudo-sit position to gain speed and stay with the pair as they are in the trap door then transition to my back to film the rest of the opening. My pseudo sit position is kind of like a hindu/budda type thing. The bottoms of my feet are flat together and my knees out to the side...this is a medium speed position for me. It is cool though too to sometimes stay at your same fall rate to show the tandem pair rapidly decelerating in front of you and to see the passenger's face.


AiRpollUtiOn  (D 42)

Jun 1, 2005, 10:54 AM
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Re: [crazydiver] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I used to slide back about 15 feet, do the half-a-backloop thing, with kind of a sitfly position on acceleration going on the back as the tandem slows down, but now due to jumping together with the same TM all the time i just accelerate on my belly, because I can stay closer to the TD, and the TM makes all kinds of funny signs at the camera.

Teaming up is great, I'm learning a lot more when I don't have to adapt to different exits and routines...

Do note that I said closer, not close, I wouldn't want a nike-logo on my forehead!


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jun 1, 2005, 11:14 AM
Post #37 of 43 (871 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I start sitting up as soon as I get the waveoff and then rotate my feet the rest of the way under (until I am on my back) as the droge releases and the tandem pair is pulled up, up, and away. I will sometimes spin in a circle on my back during the tandem opening sequence.

Chuck


Kuper  (C 35707)

Jun 8, 2005, 4:28 PM
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Re: [linestretch] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

man - you'r really close there... aren't you?
i'm an editor at my dz and working now on my own tandem shooting skills, and i've never seen anyone goes THAT close while opening... it looks very scary. i watched it twice and still in a little shockCrazy

how far are you from them (on the 1st and 2nd openings)? and with what lens?

oh - and for the 3rd open - what a pitty...Sly

Ori.


(This post was edited by Kuper on Jun 8, 2005, 4:30 PM)


Zoter

Jun 8, 2005, 5:07 PM
Post #39 of 43 (799 views)
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Re: [DaGimp] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
We jump Sigmas, so no trap door.
Can you explain this to me please..?


DaGimp  (D 26522)

Jun 8, 2005, 5:31 PM
Post #40 of 43 (795 views)
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Re: [Zoter] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
We jump Sigmas, so no trap door.
Can you explain this to me please..?

the old vectors and strongs have what is called a trap door affect.....when they pull the ripcord the tandem pair drop significantly really fast......with the sigmas the trap door effect is greatly less.....which means i can do a barrel roll basically an arms legnth away under the tandem pair and not have any worries about getting hit.....maybe a kick if i am that close though.


linestretch  (D 21060)

Jun 8, 2005, 7:23 PM
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Re: [Kuper] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
how far are you from them (on the 1st and 2nd openings)? and with what lens?

I'm about 6-8 feet away, the lens is a .5


and as for the trap door, it's because of the drogue collapsing when the release is pulled. You start to speed up cuz of no more drogue...it's the collapsed drogue that's pulling the bag off your back. The strong doesn't drop as much cuz the drogue stays inflated until the canopy is outa the bag.


skysurfcam  (F 446)

Jun 8, 2005, 9:00 PM
Post #42 of 43 (769 views)
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Re: [DaGimp] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the old vectors and strongs have what is called a trap door affect.....when they pull the ripcord the tandem pair drop significantly really fast......with the sigmas the trap door effect is greatly less.....which means i can do a barrel roll basically an arms length away under the tandem pair and not have any worries about getting hit.....maybe a kick if i am that close though.

Actually, Strongs have no trapdoor, Vectors and their deriviatives (eclipse atom etc) have a very pronounced once, Sigma's have a reduced trapdoor, but they all can bite you.

The trapdoor effect is related to the opening sequence of the tandem gear. On a vector(etc) when the drogue release is pulled, first thing that happens is the the drogue collapses, and the tandem pair speeds up. Drag over the collapsed drogue then extracts the main bag and deploys the canopy. By collapsing the drogue first, the snach force on the bag and main is reduced, but the trade off is that any malfunction can see an extended trapdoor effect, and a tandem terminal mal. Not something you want to be involved in, or below!

Strongs have no trapdoor, as they do not collapse the drogue until after the main is out of the bag (much like a concentional PC kill line). The tradeoff is a much higher snatch force on the bag & main, which can lead to a higher risk of incident, abeit at a lower speed. The ALS bag was mandated a few years ago by Strong, and has resolved most of the issues caused by the increased snatch force.

Sigmas have a variation on the collapsing drogue system. To quote their sales pitch "When either ripcord is pulled, the closing loop slips through a series of "D" rings, allowing the container to open and release the drogue disc. The drogue then partially collapses to the size of a normal pilot chute, and deploys the main canopy." As a result they do still have a trapdoor effect, and any malfunction or hesitation at this point can quickly result in a tandem terminal situation.

Being in the path of a tandem pair at any time involves a number of risks. You can never be certain of what will happen, Students may pull ripcords at any height, drouges can fail during droguefall, lines can lock on bags, drogue attachment can fail under the load of opening.

My personal closest miss was filming a vector type. TM waved off, I went backwards, up, and onto my knees to get the vert and rollback shot as they went by. The drouge collapsed, and the bag came out to the first stow, then locked there for 3 seconds or so. In that time they accelerated and dropped to around 200' below me. While I was rapidly sliding down and backwards (and swearing a lot) the lines released and the canopy deployed fast and hard with a vicious right hand spiral. Canopy and tandem pair went by a second later, about 5 feet away and going about 100mph slower than me. It opened my eyesShocked Had I been under them in that sceranio, I would probably have been along for the ride...

Going under, beside, in front of, or anywhere near a deploying tandem pair involves a varying degree of risk, but it always involves risk, both to you, and the tandem pair, regardless of the equipment being used. Anyone videoing a tandem is mitigating that risk if they have a TM show them through exactly how the tandem gears works, especially on deployment. We all accept that jumpings risky, make sure you know the extra risks a set of tandem gear adds. Even if the TM is happy for you to be there on opening, make sure you both know what's going to happen when a "what if" comes up.

Stay safe, have fun,

Craig

(Must be my day for being serious...)


Kuper  (C 35707)

Jun 9, 2005, 9:35 AM
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Re: [skysurfcam] On your back for tandem openings?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Going under, beside, in front of, or anywhere near a deploying tandem pair involves a varying degree of risk, but it always involves risk, both to you, and the tandem pair

i don't know what's it's name abroad (what is it?), but our old good master rigger calls it 'the Silence Cone' - and refer to the 2 imaginary cones above and under the tandem pair. we sometimes make a laugh about that phrase, but he's very right though. and you skysurfcam right about it too.

i think that the risk beeing there for filming a customer's opening - just not worth it.
it makes change just for us the jumpers, and we always have to remember that no matter how filming a tandem can be boreing, it have to be good and safe for our customer, and we shouldn't make our work jumps into fun jumps...

(though i loved to shots and films hereTongue)



Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Photography and Video

 


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