Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Slinks!

 


jumper03  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 8:51 AM
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Slinks! Can't Post

So we use them on the main and can use them on some reserves. I saw a bridle attached to a canopy this weekend with a slink and thought "damn thats cool!"

Got me thinking - anywhere else we can use slinks instead of metal?

What about using larger cord in the same fashion for hip rings? chest rings?


AggieDave  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 8:55 AM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been using a slink for attaching my main for nearly 2 years now (and I'm more then sure that I'm not the first one to do that), I wanted less metal bumping around up there and I've chased a number of PC/D-bags that became freebags after the rapid link coming undone, so it seemed like the simple solution. Called the rig manufacture and asked, they said "huh, good idea, we don't see any reason why not." And I never looked back.


I thought hip rings and chest rings needed to be smooth to facilitate the webbing sliding around a bit on the metal, thus making the harness articulate?


(This post was edited by AggieDave on May 3, 2005, 9:07 AM)


nicknitro71  (D 26704)

May 3, 2005, 9:02 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I used PD approved slinks on my reserves and I make my own one for mains, and d-bags.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 3, 2005, 9:24 AM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So we use them on the main and can use them on some reserves. I saw a bridle attached to a canopy this weekend with a slink and thought "damn thats cool!"

Got me thinking - anywhere else we can use slinks instead of metal?

The PD approved slinks on the reserve also eliminate having your reserve riser metal links from digging into your back after a fresh repack, as some people have complained about.

In reply to:
What about using larger cord in the same fashion for hip rings? chest rings?

It's called a non articulated harness. Tongue


Be safe.
Ed


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 3, 2005, 11:32 AM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

An even better solution...if your bridle attachment allows it, is to larkshead the dbag and bridle to the canopy attachment.

Also, using large slinks for hip and chest rings would not be safe. While they would hold up just fine i'm sure, they would wear very easily. There would be a constant friction on the "link/ring" making it wear very quickly...and I would much rather have a dbag or riser link fail...than have my harness come apart!


jumper03  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 12:01 PM
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An even better solution...if your bridle attachment allows it, is to larkshead the dbag and bridle to the canopy attachment.

You mean like how the sigma d-bag is attached to the canopy? I HATE pulling that whole damn bag through that itty bitty loop. Job would go mad doing it.


mattjw916  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

My bridle/dbag is attached that way and I can remove or install it in a couple minutes, you just have to roll the dbag and it fits through the hole (on my Mirage at least)... far less time than it would take to find a wrench to get the damn rapide link open. WinkTongue


jumper03  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 12:47 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My bridle/dbag is attached that way and I can remove or install it in a couple minutes, you just have to roll the dbag and it fits through the hole (on my Mirage at least)... far less time than it would take to find a wrench to get the damn rapide link open. WinkTongue

you've obviously never had to assemble a sigma....

bag is HUGE...loop is tiny.


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 3, 2005, 1:09 PM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had to assemble a sigma as well as many other tandem deployment bags attached to the canopy in that manner. In some it may take a little extra effort, but it is far worth it to not have friction burns on the topskin of your canopy and also the fact that you dont have to constantly keep checking your links to make sure they are properly closed and in good maintenence. I can tell you one thing for sure...pulling a dbag and drogue through that loop on the end is not near the hardest thing to do in the rigging world.


mattjw916  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 4:02 PM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
bag is HUGE...loop is tiny.

that's why riggers get the big bucks. Laugh


jumper03  (D License)

May 3, 2005, 4:19 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
that's why riggers get the big bucks. Laugh

*jumper sits back with popcorn and waits for it*


flyangel2

May 3, 2005, 4:35 PM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Great idea.

Sure hope my rigger is reading this so he can make the change on my next re-pack.


FineHavanas

May 4, 2005, 8:18 AM
Post #13 of 123 (2865 views)
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

On my G4.1 I use a reserve Slink for Deployment Bag Bridle Attachment - like this: http://www.chutingstar.com/archives/00000105.html


diablopilot  (D License)

May 5, 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #14 of 123 (2756 views)
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What about using larger cord in the same fashion for hip rings? chest rings?

The nylon on nylon wear on your rig would cause damage in just a few dozen jumps.


diablopilot  (D License)

May 5, 2005, 11:21 AM
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
An even better solution...if your bridle attachment allows it, is to larkshead the dbag and bridle to the canopy attachment.

Try using a bridle extention about 6 inches long made from 3/4" tubular nylon.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 9:56 PM
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Howsabout we just tighten up that 'ol French link a bit!


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 10:00 PM
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Re: [bodypilot1] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Try this...get your rigger to pack it a little neater.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 10:04 PM
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

You people don't actually BELIEVE that soft links are an improvment over Rapide links, do you?


Kris  (D 26033)

May 9, 2005, 10:08 PM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You people don't actually BELIEVE that soft links are an improvment over Rapide links, do you?

They're much stronger, less bulky, weigh less, and if they're going to fail, they're more than likely going to do it on opening. So, yes, I do believe they are.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 9, 2005, 10:12 PM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
Try this...get your rigger to pack it a little neater.

Please explain, "Oh Wise One", on where to put the risers and metal Rapide links anywhere other then the bottom of the packing tray, which means up against the back of the user, when packing according to the manufacturers instructions? Crazy



Ed


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 10:55 PM
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Re: [Kris] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm? They're much stronger...says who? Stronger than what? Metal? No. I've heard that 'stronger' argument before and I ain't buyin' it. Now it's fair to say that I have never seen any figures comparing the strength of French Links versus Soft Links but I'm betting you haven't either. Somebody at the DZ just told you that, right? But let's say there are figures that show that soft links are stronger. How did they do the tests? How long and at which points did they pull from? For how many years? And on and on. And I'd be willing to bet that over the course of, let's just pick a number, say 500 jumps....that there's a better chance that four french links would retain their shape and strength characteristics versus four soft links. And there's the 'nylon rubbing against nylon' factor as well. And what do you mean by saying that they're more likely to break on opening? Is that good? Are you wanting to build in a 'breaking point' on your system? And unless that Stileto of your's is down in the double digit range and you are closing in on the top ten at next years SWOOP NATIONALS, bulk and weight ain't an issue.

And here's the real point: They didn't fill a need or solve a problem! When did Rapide Links become weak, bulky, heavy and hard to use?

There is one thing for sure that soft links have over metal links: They are cheaper to manufacture and that lowers the overhead on a canopy. I wonder if that's why they are so popular now?


(This post was edited by brettpobastad on May 10, 2005, 12:18 AM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 11:07 PM
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Re: [bodypilot1] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wise One! I like that. But I think they should be all capital letters. Like this...WISE ONE. Yea.

You're right about that 'bottom of the packing tray' deal, Ed. I sure as hell can't figger out a way to get 'em into the freebag either. So until someone does, try lying them side by side instead of one on top of the other. See if you can go down a link size. Maybe a set of soft covers for the links. Make sure the reserve is the right size for the container. But I'm sure you knew alla that.

If all else fails, maybe it's time to switch container brands? Or you could put some of them newfangled soft links on it because PD told you it was the only way to go.


Kris  (D 26033)

May 9, 2005, 11:13 PM
Post #23 of 123 (2559 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Says who?Wink Now that's funny...

"In our tests, the Performance Design's Slinks survived at loadings beyond the suspension lines and/or riser! In our testing, the failure point of the system was repeatedly the suspension lines or the webbing attaching the three rings to the riser. In comparison tests, the PD reserve soft link survived tests that caused failures and/or severe damage to #4 and #5 stainless steel links! The PD Soft links not only survived these tests, but showed no signs of damage.

Based upon the results of these extensive tests, Performance Designs is the first manufacturer ever to receive FAA 'TSO' approval for a soft link for use on reserve parachutes!"


Yes, certain types of nylon braid can have a much higher tensile strength than metal. Size for size, even spider thread is much stronger than steel wire.

Also, you don't have to worry about side-loading with Slinks like you do with Maillon Rapide's, which become much weaker when side-loaded.

As for nylon rubbing against nylon, that happens to the lines on your canopy that happen to be finger-trapped as well, such as where the lower control line meets the cats-eye.

As for the openings, yes, I'd much rather it fail on opening than to find out too low that I've had a Maillon Rapide come open because it was under or over-tightened and then dump out the lines at a low altitude after a turn.

Soft links in several forms have been used for over a decade. Just like anything else, they still have to be maintained, but they offer several advantages over a Maillon Rapide.

And I do care about bulk, I jump larger canopies in a smaller container. It packs up like a brick, and before I put reserve Slinks on my Tempo, I could feel them dig into my back. The way my Mirage packs, there's nowhere else for them to go, so I got rid of them.
Attachments: Wrap it - Soft Link Test.jpg (23.4 KB)
  Wrap it Links lbs.jpg (15.8 KB)


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 9, 2005, 11:29 PM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
try lying them side by side instead of one on top of the other.


Manufacturers never suggest one one top of the other, so why would anyone pack this way? Crazy


In reply to:
See if you can go down a link size.

Packing a customers rig doesn't mean changing their gear unless requested to do so, now does it?

In reply to:
Maybe a set of soft covers for the links.

Usually makes more bulk in this case.

In reply to:
Make sure the reserve is the right size for the container.

If a someone asks, I try to suggest the correct size reserve for the container. Wink


In reply to:
If all else fails, maybe it's time to switch container brands?

Thats their choice, not mine.

In reply to:
Or you could put some of them newfangled soft links on it because PD told you it was the only way to go.

Have you ever heard PD say anything of the sort?
They do have great products though. Smile

Be safe.
Ed


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 9, 2005, 11:39 PM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And here's the real point: They didn't fill a need or solve a problem! When did Rapide Links become weak, bulky, heavy and hard to use?

And before there were rapide links there were "connector links". What problem did the rapide links solve or what need did they fill. Could it be that they were lighter with less pack volume?

When did L-links become weak, bulky, heavy and hard to use?

Sparky


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 9, 2005, 11:53 PM
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Re: [Kris] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Still not buyin' it, Kris. First of all, those tests don't show me (or you) anything. I still don't see any numbers. I don't see any testing procedures either. You've seen that deal where the sprinter dashes out to the lead against the race car? Well that don't make him faster. And you're not comparing apples to apples. Wouldn't it be just as easy to install a soft link wrong as it is to over or under tighten a metal link? Did I here of someone going in or getting hurt recently because of an improperly installed soft link? Or is that my imagination?

Keep these thoughts in mind as we go along this thread:

Soft links are not any more or any less likely to malfunction, break, stretch or be installed wrong when compared to their metal counterparts, by any usefull or even perceptible measure!

Yes, of course they are lighter and less bulkier than metal links, being made out of that lightweight, space age nylon, polymer an all. But by a usefull amount? Nope!

Note: you forgot the 'less aerodynamic drag' gambit and the popular 'easier to gey my slider over' manuever.

I'm not going to bother trying to address that 'breaking on opening being an advantage' deal. That doesn't even make any sense.

As far as the digging into your back because of the big canopy in the small container goes, well...

And what have you got against the French, anyway?


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 12:15 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

So your saying that the size, weight, stength and whatever else difference between L-bars and French links is comparable to the difference between French links and soft links?

That's like saying the BOC is as much of an improvment over the legstrap pilot chute pouch ......as was the throw-out method versus the ripcord method. You don't think that do you?


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2005, 12:32 AM
Post #28 of 123 (1092 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So your saying that the size, weight, stength and whatever else difference between L-bars and French links is comparable to the difference between French links and soft links?

That's like saying the BOC is as much of an improvment over the legstrap pilot chute pouch ......as was the throw-out method versus the ripcord method. You don't think that do you?

Yes I am. And you did not answer the question. What need did they fill, and what problem did the fix?

Could it be that they are cheaper, lighter, were stylish when first introduced and thought to be easer to install?
Why is it that sports gear is the only gear that went to the Rapide link?

This thread is not about placement of a PC.

Sparky


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

May 10, 2005, 2:46 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not going to bother trying to address that 'breaking on opening being an advantage' deal. That doesn't even make any sense.

The sense behind it is the difference in the failure modes of the two kinds of links.

One possible failure mode of a French link goes like this:
Hard opening on improperly installed link
Barrel cracks and breaks - link bends
Bent link holds lines like an open safety-pin.
Jumper doesnt notice and continues with decent.
Lines detach from riser below 500ft.
Canopy suffers unrecoverable malfunction.
Jumper dies.

The same kind of failure on a S-link would go like this:
Hard opening on improperly installed link
S-link breaks or otherwise detaches
Canopy suffers unrecoverable malfunction.
Jumper initiates emergency procedures at above 2000ft.
Jumper lives.

S-links either break on opening or they survive to landing. There have been a number of instances of Rapide links surviving opening and then releasing lines once the tension is released on the ground. Should this occur in the air as a result of low control input the jumper would be in a very difficult situation.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on May 10, 2005, 7:00 AM)


skymedic  (C 33561)

May 10, 2005, 6:56 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've witnessed the pulls with my very own eye's...the riser always failed before a slink would come close.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 8:37 AM
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

show me some of those incidents...


Kris  (D 26033)

May 10, 2005, 9:02 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Luckily, there are no fatalities that I know of, yet. But I've personally been witness to someone who landed and as soon as the tension was off the canopy, the lines on the right, rear riser dumped out due to a bent link.

Do a search on "bent link" and you'll see plenty of threads where people got lucky, including several pics of bent open links.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

May 10, 2005, 9:04 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Evidently happens quite often... luckily no one's died from it yet but as we all know that doesn't mean we've not simply been lucky so far.

http://www.dropzone.com/...ent;postatt_id=6042;

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1280155#1280155

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=395946#395946

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=686694#686694

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=687325#687325

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=687384#687384

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=379613#379613

http://www.dropzone.com/...cgi?post=53372#53372

http://www.dropzone.com/...ent;postatt_id=6042;

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=394887#394887

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=394889#394889

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=396894#396894

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1280239#1280239

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1280466#1280466

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1280720#1280720


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on May 10, 2005, 9:05 AM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 9:11 AM
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Re: [skymedic] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Where are we going with this, Marc? Are we now talking about which would fail first, metal or fabric links? Or are we talking about which type would we want to fail first? ...I can't even make a sentence out of that! I hope there isn't anyone out there making the argument that soft links are better than metal links because...when they do fail, it's easier to detect the problem ??

Ironically enough, I have a first hand story that somewhat supports that argument. several years ago a jumpmaster that worked at my DZ landed with a twisted French link. He noticed it at a point well before landing but low enough to where he wasn't comfortable chopping it. His desicion.

So there you go. If he would have used soft links he might have -noticed -it -sooner? Or maybe he could have put little nicks with a hot knife on each riser so it would fail there first ....so he could see it sooner? Maybe?? No?

Making the argument for something because when it breaks it will be easier to deal with, well....

Sorry Marc! I'm not trying to dog you! I think you are actually trying to help me to make my point.

I juat gave 'em another set of French links and told 'em to make sure he tightened 'em up right. He was happy with that.


Kris  (D 26033)

May 10, 2005, 9:18 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I believe it was Bill Booth who has even come out and stated that equipment should have some failure points like risers that break. Better they break on an extremely hard opening, then cut them away and go to one's reserve, than to have a person break instead.


(This post was edited by Kris on May 10, 2005, 9:18 AM)


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

May 10, 2005, 9:21 AM
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I hope there isn't anyone out there making the argument that soft links are better than metal links because...when they do fail, it's easier to detect the problem ??

No - one of the reasons many people like slinks is because when they fail they do so on opening - ie at a point where you can use your reserve. When rapide links fail they may well hold on until you're half way through your dive before letting go at 50ft. Then you're dead.

Besides... according to the tests carried out on them, the riser will fail before the correctly installed s-link will... just as it will with a rapide link. Neither are likely to fail unless you do something wrong with them... like over tighten them/under tighten them or simply misinstall them.

But should you misinstall your links when would you prefer them to fail? 2000ft or 200ft?

Rapide links are fine I'm sure. Hell I have them on my reserve and certainly wouldn't bat an eyelid at using them on anyone elses kit. But that doesn't mean they are better.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on May 10, 2005, 9:23 AM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 9:23 AM
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey! No fair using the same example three times! Oh, and one of your examples has moved to another location on the web.

And thank you for making my point for me, once again. In none of those examples (and to be completely forthright, I didn't read every word. My eyes started to glaze over after looking at the same bent French link three times) did the link fail! In all of the examples, near as I can tell, someone forgot to tighten the links, or maybe over tightened them?

Class, I'll give you five more minutes on this project and then it's recess.

Geeez...


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
May 10, 2005, 9:23 AM
Post #38 of 123 (993 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

PD and RWS test on RWS's webbing destroyer machine. (I don't know the name of it but thats what is does Sly) Talk to PD or RWS about it but when I was there 2 years ago they showed me results that a slink will outlast a metal link to a force of 2000+ more pounds at least.

Slinks will not fail later, they are an all or nothing. 1 or 0. Its either going to work or it did'nt. If its still connected after opening then it's going to last till you land. I've got a Rapid Link in my hand that is complelty bent open and lines fell off as soon as the jumper landed and tension was removed. Had he done anything like a hook turn or hit turbulence it could have fallen off then.

Slinks also do not damage sliders. I can't tell you how many dings and burrs I've seen on sliders caused by slamming into metal links. Rubber bumpers are not a solution since I've seen a mal caused by one of them sliding up the lines and pinching off the canopy. I had to have new grommets put on my slider last year (Thanks PookieBearRigging!) since the previous owner had metal links and it split the grommt into burrs that could tear up my lines.


Kris  (D 26033)

May 10, 2005, 9:28 AM
Post #39 of 123 (985 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In all of the examples, near as I can tell, someone forgot to tighten the links, or maybe over tightened them?

Which is yet another thing that one doesn't have to worry about with Slinks.Smile


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

May 10, 2005, 9:30 AM
Post #40 of 123 (984 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In all of the examples, near as I can tell, someone forgot to tighten the links, or maybe over tightened them?

Yup - neither rapide or slink should fail unless you put human error into the equation. Are you suggesting no one dies from human error?

Remove human error and tests show slinks survive openings that break risers. As far as I'm concerned that's strong enough. On the flip side I'm sure rapide links are strong enough in cases where no human error is present. The failure mode I'm highlighting is one cause by human error - one where human error on a rapide link can kill and human error on a slink is far less likely to kill. I'd rather people put themselves in a situation where human error is less likely to kill them.

You might have looked at the same picture several times - there was only one in my links. The majority of those I posted were links to individual posts in several different threads, each one being an individual account of a bent rapide link. That is afterall what you asked for.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on May 10, 2005, 9:32 AM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 9:50 AM
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Rapide links are fine I'm sure. Hell I have them on my reserve and certainly wouldn't bat an eyelid at using them on anyone elses kit. But that doesn't mean they are better."

I didn't say that French links are better! Where did I say that? The original point I was trying to make was that soft links are not 'better' then metal links! And that jumpers are using them because someone told them so. But they don't really understand why! And then they pass that crap to next year's 100 jump wonder.

Look at it this way; It was a big improvement going from belly mounted reserves to tandem rigs (for you youngin's, when they first started putting both the main and reserve on the back in one container, they called that a 'tandem rig') That didn't mean belly mount reserves all of a sudden go bad did they?

And I do love a good square parachute over them round ones! But that doesn't make rounds any more dangerous then they were, does it?

Soft links are not dangerous or bad. I never said that they were. Or even implied that they were. I don't think??

What I'm saying is that they do not fix a problem or markedly improve performance over what they may replace! And no one has shown my anything to disprove my theroy.

Hey! I'm all for innovation and change. But let's understand the proceess behind each change and the reasoning and intent for it.

But...I apologize for getting salty about it.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 9:53 AM
Post #42 of 123 (993 views)
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

So...did you ever find any examples of a French link actually failing?


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 9:56 AM
Post #43 of 123 (987 views)
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

"So we use them on the main and can use them on some reserves. I saw a bridle attached to a canopy this weekend with a slink and thought "damn thats cool!"

Got me thinking - anywhere else we can use slinks instead of metal?

What about using larger cord in the same fashion for hip rings? chest rings?"


This is what I'm talking about. This cat want's 'em because they're "cool".


tso-d_chris

May 10, 2005, 10:09 AM
Post #44 of 123 (980 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So...did you ever find any examples of a French link actually failing?

Since with respect to a TSO, which apply to Slinks and rapid links on the reserve, a failure is ANY CHANGE IN A COMPONENT THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS ITS AIRWORTHINESS. Including links to previous threads, there have been many examples given. Just because a bent rapid link does not spill lines DOES NOT MEAN IT HAS NOT FAILED.

I have yet to hear how a rapid link can be considered as good as a Slink. Slinks are stronger, and problems are evident at time of failure. This is perhaps their greatest benefit.


tso-d_chris

May 10, 2005, 10:12 AM
Post #45 of 123 (976 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is what I'm talking about. This cat want's 'em because they're "cool".

As a rigger, I amsure you are aware of the potential canopy damage that can occur if nylon get trapped between the connector link or bridal attachment ring,and the D-bag grommet. Are you suggesting there is no practical advantage to using a Slink in such an application verses a rapid link.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 10:27 AM
Post #46 of 123 (969 views)
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Re: [tso-d_chris] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Chris, that's just down right stupid! I'm sorry man, you're probably a good guy an all. I'm sure your rigging work is just fine and you probably buy beer when your supposed to, but goddamit read the words that you just typed! First you say that soft links are stronger, then you say "but if they do break, at least you'll see it in time" (not your exact words) So do we use them because they are stronger or because it's easier to notice a failure?

One 'failure' I definitley see is that when a component isn't installed or assembled correctly, it cannot do it's job. The component did not, I repeat DID NOT ....fail! The human that hooked it up wrong 'failed'.


hookitt  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 10:38 AM
Post #47 of 123 (960 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is what I'm talking about. This cat want's 'em because they're "cool".


Many good innovations have come from seeing something cool and wanting to expand upon it.

By the way, I'll put my money on Ed's rigger anyday


tso-d_chris

May 10, 2005, 10:40 AM
Post #48 of 123 (960 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So do we use them because they are stronger or because it's easier to notice a failure?

Both. They are stronger, so they are less likely to fail. However, should they fail, they fail immediately and totally, eliminating the possibility of them dumping their lines 100 ft off the deck.

In reply to:
One 'failure' I definitley see is that when a component isn't installed or assembled correctly, it cannot do it's job. The component did not, I repeat DID NOT ....fail! The human that hooked it up wrong 'failed'.

If it is improperly installed and then used, and changes in a manner that affects its airworthiness occur, that IS A FAILURE. That the failure was due to incorrect installation does not change the fact that a failure occured.

BTW I am not a rigger, and never claimed to be. I do think it is important to know as much as possible about my gear.


pilotdave  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 10:44 AM
Post #49 of 123 (953 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The original point I was trying to make was that soft links are not 'better' then metal links!

I have nothing against metal links, but you keep failing to respond to any argument as to why soft links ARE better. You say they aren't, others give reasons why they are. Belly reserves didn't become more dangerous when better gear was developed. Rounds didn't become more dangerous when squares came about. But that doesn't mean newer containers and newer mains are not better than old ones. Slinks don't make metal links dangerous. But that doesn't mean slinks aren't better.

Make ANY argument as to why they are equal.

Dave


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 10:55 AM
Post #50 of 123 (944 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Ironically enough, I have a first hand story that somewhat supports that argument. several years ago a jumpmaster that worked at my DZ landed with a twisted French link. He noticed it at a point well before landing but low enough to where he wasn't comfortable chopping it. His desicion.

So there you go. If he would have used soft links he might have -noticed -it -sooner? Or maybe he could have put little nicks with a hot knife on each riser so it would fail there first ....so he could see it sooner? Maybe?? No?

You misunderstand. With Slinks you won;t ever be in a situation of noticing a problem too low to cutaway. If they were to fail, they would fail completely, on deployment. You would know immediately. I know of only 1 Slink failure and that was indirectly caused by Rapide links. The rapide links had damaged the slider grommets, creating a sharp edge. The owner replaced the links with Slinkw ithout checking his slider grommets-go figure. The slider grommet cut through a Slink.

Slinks are stronger than Rapide links.
Slinks do not damage slider grommets.
Slinks do not bend open creating the possibility of the lines falling off too low for the jumper to do anything.
Slinks are easier to install, requiring no tools, no lock tite, and no nail polish, or slider bumpers.
Slinks are easier to inspect for wear.
Slinks have less bulk.

Slinks are better than Rapide links in every way.

Derek


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

May 10, 2005, 11:07 AM
Post #51 of 123 (1022 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What I'm saying is that they do not fix a problem or markedly improve performance over what they may replace! And no one has shown my anything to disprove my theroy.

I agree to a good degree. I don't think slinks improved things markedly. I do feel they are an improvement over the rapide link though... just they are a very small improvement which is only likely to really mean the difference between life and death in very rare and specific circumstances.

Technically they are also stronger but I personally doubt that is going to make much of a difference in the scale of things... for whatever my opinion is worth. Both are strong enough

Consider the recent Mirage SB. It was triggered by an event which was caused by human error and resulted in no fatalities. It addressed what would be quite a rare cause of a fatality. Still however Mirage felt they could increase jumpers safety by issuing an SB.

I feel this is somewhat analogous to the difference between Slinks and Rapide links. There's nothing inherently wrong with a Rapide link which ought to cause someone to conclude they are dangerous. Equally there's nothing wrong with a pre-SB Mirage. But in both instances human error can cause a sticky situation which can easily result in a fatality... although in all previous occasions the jumpers involved were lucky.

Why should our choice of links be any different? Improperly installed slinks can fail catastrophically on opening. Improperly installed rapide links can fail at any time between opening and landing. The former is less likely to result in your death, ergo slinks are safer... at least in this one respect.

Quote:
I'm all for innovation and change. But let's understand the proceess behind each change and the reasoning and intent for it.

Me too. I think this sort of conversation is one of the best ways to do come to that understanding.

Quote:
But...I apologize for getting salty about it.

I didn't think you were. I certainly hope you don't feel I was. As I said I think this kind of conversation is precisely what is required for us to be able to fully explore the reasons why such changes take place.


pilotdave  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 11:12 AM
Post #52 of 123 (1018 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
With Slinks you won;t ever be in a situation of noticing a problem too low to cutaway. If they were to fail, they would fail completely, on deployment. You would know immediately.

I'm just curious... is that a proven fact? I personally use slinks on my main and reserve, but I'm just not 100% convinced a slink could never fail after opening. It's the lack of hardness in a slink compared to a rapide link that I wonder about. Less cut resistance. Couldn't one of those damaged slider grommets slowly cut through it during a canopy ride? Or some failure mode I can't even imagine...

Dave


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #53 of 123 (1015 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm just curious... is that a proven fact? I personally use slinks on my main and reserve, but I'm just not 100% convinced a slink could never fail after opening. It's the lack of hardness in a slink compared to a rapide link that I wonder about. Less cut resistance. Couldn't one of those damaged slider grommets slowly cut through it during a canopy ride?

I heard about exactly that happening, a damaged slider grommet from a Rapide link wearing through a Slink. With a well cared for slider, it'll never happen since Slinks don't damage the slider grommets. It should never happen, but some people don't take care of their gear. All that being said, that is the only Slink failure I have ever heard of I have seen more Rapide failures than that and heard of a lot more.

I would like to hear one thing a Rapide link does better than a Slink. I don't think there are any.

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 10, 2005, 11:53 AM)


pilotdave  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 11:33 AM
Post #54 of 123 (1004 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I would like to hear one thing a Rapide link does better than a Slink. I don't there are any.

Damages slider grommets better! Tongue

Dave


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 10, 2005, 12:09 PM
Post #55 of 123 (990 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

The original point I was trying to make was that soft links are not 'better' then metal links!
Quote:


That's like saying a Katana is not better than a Batwing.


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 10, 2005, 12:13 PM
Post #56 of 123 (989 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I would like to hear one thing a Rapide link does better than a Slink. I don't there are any.

Damages slider grommets better! Tongue

I like the way I can hook 'em all together if I have a spare set, less hassle then looking for a ziplock baggie to put the slinks in Wink


The one thing I did like about french links was that it was easy to adjust the trim of my Lightning a bit by adding links. I think for crew most people still use french links, it's easy to tack big slider bumpers to 'em (don't think the pilgrim hat thingies will hold a spider coming down fast, but not sure, never tried).


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 12:28 PM
Post #57 of 123 (984 views)
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Re: [dragon2] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The one thing I did like about french links was that it was easy to adjust the trim of my Lightning a bit by adding links.

You can do that with Slinks.

Quote:
I think for crew most people still use french links, it's easy to tack big slider bumpers to 'em (don't think the pilgrim hat thingies will hold a spider coming down fast, but not sure, never tried).

The slider stops work really well and don't damage lines or need to be tacked like the vinyl slider bumpers do.

Derek


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2005, 1:07 PM
Post #58 of 123 (969 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you going to respond to this post?

"Yes I am. And you did not answer the question. What need did they fill, and what problem did the fix?

Could it be that they are cheaper, lighter, were stylish when first introduced and thought to be easer to install?
Why is it that sports gear is the only gear that went to the Rapide link?

This thread is not about placement of a PC. "

Sparky


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 1:21 PM
Post #59 of 123 (967 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

(sigh)

OK, let's try it this way...

Would it be a fair statement to say that square parachutes are 'better' than round parachutes?
My answer would be 'yes'

Would it be a fair statement to say that square parachutes are 'a whole lot better' than round parachutes?
My answer would also be 'yes'

Would it be a fair statement to say that round parachutes are now 'bad' because square parachutes exist?
My answer would be 'no'

Would it be a fair statement to say that the 3-ring release is 'better' then Capewells?
My answer would be 'yes'

Would it be a fair statement to say that the 3-ring release is 'a whole lot better' then Capewells?
My answer would be 'yes' again!

Would it be a fair statement to say that Capewells are now 'bad' because we have the 3-ring system available to us?
My answer would be 'no'

Would it be a fair statement to say that Slinks are 'better' than French Links?
My answer would be (for the sake of this argument) 'yes'

Would it be a fair statement to say that because we finally got Brett to admit that Slinks are 'better' than French Links, he might agree that Slinks are 'a whole lot better' than French Links?
I would answer, No, they are not 'a whole lot better' and roll my eyes.

Would it be a fair statement to say that the vast majority of skydivers out there who do use Slinks do so without understanding the concept?
Sadly, the answer seems to be 'yes'

Would it be a fair statement to say that Nigel's guitar amplifier is 'louder' than other amps since all the knobs on his go to 'Eleven'?
Ok, sure. I'll buy that.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 1:33 PM
Post #60 of 123 (961 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The original point I was trying to make was that soft links are not 'better' then metal links!

Quote:
Would it be a fair statement to say that Slinks are 'better' than French Links?
My answer would be (for the sake of this argument) 'yes'

See, that wasn't so hard, was it?Sly

Derek


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:06 PM
Post #61 of 123 (951 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks are stronger than Rapide links.
For the sake of argument, I'll agree. But you must also agree that properly installed and maintained, the strength of both soft links and metal links is well past the point of what is required to do the job.

I don't ever remember hearing anything about a French link 'breaking' as far as the metal actually coming apart before the nylon lines or risers did.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:10 PM
Post #62 of 123 (949 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks do not damage slider grommets.
Ya got me there, H&S!


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 10, 2005, 2:11 PM
Post #63 of 123 (948 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
By the way, I'll put my money on Ed's rigger anyday.

Me too, sept me ain't me rigger nomo. Wink

I rig for myself now. Tongue


Be safe.
Ed


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:22 PM
Post #64 of 123 (942 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks do not bend open creating the possibility of the lines falling off too low for the jumper to do anything.
Right again, I guess. But do you really know what issues we may or may not have with soft links, long term? I bet if you crunched the numbers, you would conclude that soft link usage is a mear drop in the bucket when compared to French links. Certainly not even close to enough to make a real conclusion that there won't be unforseen problems down the road.

Has there ever been an incident where a French Link came apart and the lines came off the link at an altitude too low for the jumper to do anything about it and that jumper was hurt or killed?

(I'm not using this as part of my reasoning for prefering French links because that would be like using the argument that if and/or when soft links fail, they do so at a preferable time.)


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 2:30 PM
Post #65 of 123 (936 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
For the sake of argument, I'll agree. But you must also agree that properly installed and maintained, the strength of both soft links and metal links is well past the point of what is required to do the job.

I don't ever remember hearing anything about a French link 'breaking' as far as the metal actually coming apart before the nylon lines or risers did.

The threads have stripped on Rapide links, letting the link bend open. Modern canopies don't use nylon lines.

Quote:
ight again, I guess. But do you really know what issues we may or may not have with soft links, long term

What do you consider long term? 1000, 2000, 3000+ jumps. Slinks have gone the distance without any long term problems.

Quote:
I bet if you crunched the numbers, you would conclude that soft link usage is a mear drop in the bucket when compared to French links.

I would disagree, there are a lot of Slinks out there.

Quote:
Has there ever been an incident where a French Link came apart and the lines came off the link at an altitude too low for the jumper to do anything about it and that jumper was hurt or killed?

Not that I know of. I do know of Rapide link failures though.

We've agreed that Slinks are better than Rapide links, but you still prefer Rapide links. Why?

Derek


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #66 of 123 (931 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks are easier to install, requiring no tools, no lock tite, and no nail polish, or slider bumpers.
Who says they are easier to install? You? That's an opinion and it shouldn't be on the list of deciding factors in any case. I think French links are MUCH easier to install. And I have seen with my own eyes two different instances of soft links being installed the wrong way.

You got me again on the 'tools' thing 'cause you gotta use a wrench but I wouldn't use nail polish or lock-tite. Don't need 'em. Never used 'em and never had a French link problem since I started using them way back when. Thousands and thousands of jumps and many, many canopies ago.

Yea, I don't see the need for slider bumpers either. I've used those Nylon or Delrin washers that go directly on the link between the lines. They work great!

Quote:
Slinks are easier to inspect for wear.
What? Says who? This is another 'opinion' and even if true, should not be used in any descision on which to use. And I think it's easier to inspect a French link. You can see all surfaces easily and the link can be rotated all the way through lines and risers for a complete inspection. Really all you have to do is make sure it is tight enough but not so tight as to crack the barrell. Finger tight plus a quarter turn does the trick (with a 'tool', of course).


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:52 PM
Post #67 of 123 (926 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks have less bulk.
You got me again, SWOOP-man. I cannot argue with you on that one and won't even try.

But how much difference is there really? I'm saying that only in extreme cases will it make any difference in performance, comfort or looks. But yes, the are less bulky.

(rolls eyes)

Soft cutaway cable housings have less bulk then metal ones as well. Maybe we should start putting those things back on.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 2:54 PM
Post #68 of 123 (925 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Who says they are easier to install? You?

Yep, me. I can install Slinks in less than half the time it takes to properly install Rapide links.

Quote:
You got me again on the 'tools' thing 'cause you gotta use a wrench but I wouldn't use nail polish or lock-tite. Don't need 'em.

Take a look at PD's reserve manual or Poynter's, you do need them. Rapide links can loosen over time, a match mark/toque stripe is a way of making inspection easier and lock tite helps prevent the link from loosening.

Quote:
Yea, I don't see the need for slider bumpers either. I've used those Nylon or Delrin washers that go directly on the link between the lines. They work great!

Um, those ARE slider bumpers.

Quote:
What? Says who? This is another 'opinion' and even if true, should not be used in any descision on which to use. And I think it's easier to inspect a French link. You can see all surfaces easily and the link can be rotated all the way through lines and risers for a complete inspection. Really all you have to do is make sure it is tight enough but not so tight as to crack the barrell. Finger tight plus a quarter turn does the trick (with a 'tool', of course).

You can spin a Slink too and don't need tools to inspect it. You can't see small cracks on Rapide links, especially if there on the threaded area. I guess you could use NDI, but that seems like way to much for a cheap link.

I thought we already agreed Slinks are better? Why would use Rapide links when Slinks are better?

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 10, 2005, 2:58 PM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 2:55 PM
Post #69 of 123 (924 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Slinks are better than Rapide links in every way.
Have you seen the movie SPINAL TAP? You DO realize that it was a farce and they were actually poking fun at the band, don't you.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 2:59 PM
Post #70 of 123 (919 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Have you seen the movie SPINAL TAP?

No. What's your point?

Derek


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 10, 2005, 3:18 PM
Post #71 of 123 (921 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Never mind. You just made it for me.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 10, 2005, 4:38 PM
Post #72 of 123 (910 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I hear something under the bridge, could it be a Troll?Mad


pilotdave  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 5:56 PM
Post #73 of 123 (900 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You can spin a Slink too and don't need tools to inspect it.

What if it's tacked down? Do you think slinks should be, or it doesn't matter? Mine have taken a pretty good set and don't rotate very often anymore, but some people still recommend tacking them in place. Adds to the installation time too, if you think it's necessary...

Dave


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 10, 2005, 6:04 PM
Post #74 of 123 (898 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What if it's tacked down? Do you think slinks should be, or it doesn't matter?

I don't think it matters. The only time it has been an issue is when people have stowed their excess steering line in the riser and it snagged the link. I don't think it is a good idea to stow excess in the loop on the riser for the link. A better solution is on the front of each rear riser like RWS's Trulock risers.

Derek


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 10, 2005, 9:24 PM
Post #75 of 123 (879 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont think that anyone on this forum is saying that rapides are bad, but they are (and myself) saying that rapide links are inferior to slinks. I see on your profile that you jump a racer, with a batwing, and a phantom round reserve. I have jumped racers. They are comfortable, but are inferior products on the market today. Round reserves are inferior products. Batwings are now inferior products. Not saying that your gear is bad, but I am saying that you may not realize some real advantages to state of the art equipment. Its more fun and safer.

Let me compare your thoughts to this....

A round parachute made twenty years ago is most likely just as safe as it was years ago given that its been taken care of. However...square parachutes are much safer to fly and land. Just as rapide links are not bad, slinks provide more advantages.

In the same respect...a 1978 buick gets me from point a to point b in the same manner as a 2001 honda civic does...but the civic is going to do it in a better way. The buick isn't bad...but the civic is more advanced and more desireable...not becasue of looks only, but moreso because of its safety and efficiency features.

Keep in mind that while your gear preferences may be a few years behind...which is fine...I truly believe no one should be forced to stop jumping their gear if they feel it is safe and useful and a rigger says its ok...but keep an open mind to new products.

If you were open to new ideas and checked out their advantages...you wouldn't be jumping a racer with a round reserve and a batwing.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

May 10, 2005, 9:52 PM
Post #76 of 123 (1104 views)
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Re Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Where is Rodney King when you need him? Laugh





Be safe.
Ed


peckerhead

May 11, 2005, 5:59 PM
Post #77 of 123 (1050 views)
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

"If you were open to new ideas and checked out their advantages...you wouldn't be jumping a racer with a round reserve and a batwing."

You should see what he used to jump, the batwing is a big improvement Wink

Now the racer and the round reserve is just plain weird......Sorry Brett but friends don't let friends jump racersLaugh


(This post was edited by peckerhead on May 11, 2005, 6:02 PM)


Sonicfreefly  (D License)

May 12, 2005, 12:15 AM
Post #78 of 123 (1023 views)
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Re: [jumper03] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

The tab on my soft link is hidden in the riser thus preventing a line snagging it and causing a problem. I noticed that when attaching the bridle with a soft link, there is no place to hide the soft link tab. Would this be a potential snag point?


(This post was edited by Sonicfreefly on May 12, 2005, 12:21 AM)
Attachments: Slinkbag.jpg (20.0 KB)


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 12, 2005, 12:21 AM
Post #79 of 123 (1019 views)
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Re: [Sonicfreefly] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say no. The only thing that would be available to snag on the tab is topzkin fabric...but that is not going to happen.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 12, 2005, 9:54 PM
Post #80 of 123 (971 views)
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Re: [Sonicfreefly] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The tab on my soft link is hidden in the riser thus preventing a line snagging it and causing a problem. I noticed that when attaching the bridle with a soft link, there is no place to hide the soft link tab. Would this be a potential snag point?

Where you hide the tab on your soft link is where people are/were stowing their brake line. This is how the line snagged on the tab. There has been one fatality that I know of from this.

Sparky


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 12, 2005, 11:06 PM
Post #81 of 123 (1002 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well. It`s not recommended to stow the break line excess in the risers. So if they do it against the manufacturer`s recommendation that their own stupid business.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/ControlSysMalf.PDF


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 13, 2005, 12:30 AM
Post #82 of 123 (995 views)
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you were open to new ideas and checked out their advantages...you wouldn't be jumping a racer with a round reserve and a batwing.

Young fella, you're wrong with your argument but I don't have the time, nor the patience, to explain it to you. You ain't gonna understand it anyway. When you say Racers are inferior products, well that's just ignorant. You'll never get the another munufacturer to say that. You will never hear a true professional say that.

And the blanket statement that modern equipment is 'safer' is simply not true. The statistics prove you wrong. The statement proves you might not be long for this world. Have you checked the incident reports lately? Have you ever seen a dead skydiver as the result of a hook turn? I have and it ain't pretty.

And by the way, junior, I have more jumps on what you call 'modern equipment', than you have jumps TOTAL.

Brett


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 13, 2005, 12:34 AM
Post #83 of 123 (993 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Where you hide the tab on your soft link is where people are/were stowing their brake line. This is how the line snagged on the tab. There has been one fatality that I know of from this.

So if this is true, and I had heard it as well, then that means Rapide links win!

minus 1 to nothing....


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 13, 2005, 12:38 AM
Post #84 of 123 (992 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well. It`s not recommended to stow the break line excess in the risers. So if they do it against the manufacturer`s recommendation that their own stupid business.

Well that's a pretty strong statement. And of course you, being the experienced jumper that you are, have evidence to back it up, right?


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 13, 2005, 5:02 AM
Post #85 of 123 (973 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well that's a pretty strong statement. And of course you, being the experienced jumper that you are, have evidence to back it up, right?

He posted the evidence to back it up. Click the link. Of course you didn't believe that Slinks are stronger than Rapide links even when given the evidence so I doubt you'll believe this either. I would think as a rigger you would know that stowing the excess brake material in the riser loop for the link is not a good idea, for Rapide links or Slinks. You do keep up to date, right?

You seem to believe anything negative about Slinks without evidence, but even with evidence, won't believe anything positive about Slinks.Crazy

You still have not posted a single reason why Slinks are not better than Rapide links. 6 to 0, Slinks win.Crazy

Derek

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 13, 2005, 6:29 AM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 13, 2005, 5:20 AM
Post #86 of 123 (967 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don`t want to convince you. It`s up to you if you want to be a test jumper....

BTW I have Slinks on my main.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 13, 2005, 6:32 AM
Post #87 of 123 (953 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You got me again on the 'tools' thing 'cause you gotta use a wrench but I wouldn't use nail polish or lock-tite. Don't need 'em. Never used 'em and never had a French link problem since I started using them way back when. Thousands and thousands of jumps and many, many canopies ago.

Have you ever assembled or packed a PD reserve with Rapide links?

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 13, 2005, 11:49 AM)


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 13, 2005, 7:20 AM
Post #88 of 123 (942 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

-------------
And the blanket statement that modern equipment is 'safer' is simply not true. The statistics prove you wrong. The statement proves you might not be long for this world. Have you checked the incident reports lately? Have you ever seen a dead skydiver as the result of a hook turn? I have and it ain't pretty.
-----------
I have seen a few people femur in because of hook turns. I have also seen broken bones from parachutes striking objects, hard landings under tandems, and students forgetting to flare, along with various other injuries that are slipping my mind. I also watched two friends of mine die in a crw incident last fall. Thanks for the vote of confidence. You saying that i'm gonna go in because I feel that there are now more updated and safer containers than a racer is just rude and it surprsises me you haven't gone in as a result of karma.

------------------
And by the way, junior, I have more jumps on what you call 'modern equipment', than you have jumps TOTAL.
---------
No one ever said that I had more jumps that you or that I had seen more injuries and deaths than you. I"m not sure if i'm supposed to think you're cool or something because you have seen lots of people die, which I am presuming you have from your previous statement. You think i'm going to go in early in my career because I don't like racers??? Who are you? What the heck does that have to do with not jumping a racer...I think it decreases my odds of going in. I never said I was a skygod, nor that I had thousands of jumps. I have lots friends who jump racers. I have jumped racers. I'm not saying they are bad, i'm saying that in my opinion, there are containers that have many things to help prevent incidents that racers lack.

This is all aside from the fact that most riggers charge extra for packing racers because of there complexity and tediousness.

I was just reading your story about freeflying on the poopsheet(whatever that means) and you mentioned that on a head down jump you had bridle flopping around hitting your leg? Why? Now why would that be? You are a rigger...investigate and let me know.


(This post was edited by crazydiver on May 13, 2005, 7:32 AM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 13, 2005, 7:44 AM
Post #89 of 123 (930 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You still have not posted a single reason why Slinks are not better than Rapide links. 6 to 0, Slinks win

Rapide links with bumpers do a great job of keeping the slider above the risers. For those who never pull their slider down Rapide links work great.

They also work great for those who've been jumping them for years and don't want to change to something new.

If I were buying a new PD canopy today I'd get it with SLinks. Since I'm not buying a new canopy anytime soon, the Rapide links on my current canopies work fine, I know how to inspect and maintain them and I can get 2 jumps in for the cost of a set of main SLinks, I'll stick with Rapide links for now.


tso-d_chris

May 13, 2005, 7:54 AM
Post #90 of 123 (925 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I were buying a new PD canopy today I'd get it with SLinks. Since I'm not buying a new canopy anytime soon, the Rapide links on my current canopies work fine, I know how to inspect and maintain them and I can get 2 jumps in for the cost of a set of main SLinks, I'll stick with Rapide links for now.

Well said. I, too, use rapide links, because that is what is on my rig, and they work.

Two things worth mentioning, though. First, I use rapide links knowing that of my options, it is the inferior one. Second, I make a point to visually check my links on opening as part of my canopy checks. I've heard too many horror stories about rapide links failing.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 13, 2005, 9:01 AM
Post #91 of 123 (911 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Rapide links with bumpers do a great job of keeping the slider above the risers. For those who never pull their slider down Rapide links work great.

Slinks w/ hats do the same thing, only better. The bumpers don't wear out as fast and when they do, the Slink doesn't damage the slider grommet. Slinks slider stops don't need to be tacked and won't slide up the lines. They are also less bulky.

Quote:
They also work great for those who've been jumping them for years and don't want to change to something new.

That isn't a reason why Slinks are not better than Rapide links.

Quote:
If I were buying a new PD canopy today I'd get it with SLinks. Since I'm not buying a new canopy anytime soon, the Rapide links on my current canopies work fine, I know how to inspect and maintain them and I can get 2 jumps in for the cost of a set of main SLinks, I'll stick with Rapide links for now.

And that is fine. Rapide links work. I haven't heard a single thing that Slinks don't do better than Rapide links, except damage grommetsWink. SLinks are better than Rapide links.

Brett says Slinks are not better than Rapide links, dismisses the evidence that they are better and offers no evidence that they aren't.Crazy

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 13, 2005, 10:07 AM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 13, 2005, 10:24 AM
Post #92 of 123 (887 views)
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not saying they are bad, i'm saying that in my opinion, there are containers that have many things to help prevent incidents that racers lack.

Hey dummy, read your post again. You said Racers are inferior the first time.

...tells me you don't your ass from the hole you're probably gonna leave in the ground someday. With that dumbshit attitude.

And I was talking about your statement that square parachutes are 'safer' than rounds. Are you daft, man! Square parachutes have an inherently better glide ration and the ability to provide lift on landing and their pack volume is less, respectivley, etc. But they are no more dangerous and no safer than a round parachute. Check the figures, dummy and then take up golf before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Quote:
This is all aside from the fact that most riggers charge extra for packing racers because of there complexity and tediousness.

Riggers that know what they are doing do not mind packing Racers at all. And think about it. Is that how you choose gear? BY WHICH ONE IS CHEAPER TO PACK? That attitude is death on a stick. If you need to get your tonsils removed and your doctor says it's to hard to do so he's going to leave 'em in. I'd get me another doctor.

Not that it applies to you, but I charge less tro pack a Racer.

Quote:
I was just reading your story about freeflying on the poopsheet(whatever that means) and you mentioned that on a head down jump you had bridle flopping around hitting your leg? Why? Now why would that be? You are a rigger...investigate and let me know.

Good point, Travis. Had nothing to do with a Racer (or slinks, or square parachutes, for that matter). At that point in time I was still using a legstrap mounted pilot chute and the bridle got loose. So being a rigger an all, I changed the velcro. Go figure? And FYI, that was several years ago and I have since changed to a pull-out deployment system. But don't worry about me or my equipment. I've manage to stay alive for this long without your help and you have enough to worry about on your own.

Brett


Spizzzarko

May 13, 2005, 10:38 AM
Post #93 of 123 (880 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey dummy, read your post again. You said Racers are inferior the first time.

...tells me you don't your ass from the hole you're probably gonna leave in the ground someday. With that dumbshit attitude.

And I was talking about your statement that square parachutes are 'safer' than rounds. Are you daft, man! Square parachutes have an inherently better glide ration and the ability to provide lift on landing and their pack volume is less, respectivley, etc. But they are no more dangerous and no safer than a round parachute. Check the figures, dummy and then take up golf before you hurt yourself or someone else.



Hey Dude,

Watch your tone. Getting mad at someone over the internet is a worthless pursuit. It just makes you look bad. Please watch your tone and your language.


crazydiver  (D 28022)

May 13, 2005, 2:52 PM
Post #94 of 123 (841 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I realize that after this post you are simply going to be thinking...hey, I finally proved my point and told him off...but thats wrong. I have better things to do that argue with you. If you think that i'm going to go in because I dont prefer racers or round parachutes, then I think you are going to go in because of your gear choice. Thats not what I think in reality, but I figured I'd come down to your level a bit.

No one said I chose my rigger on how cheap they are. I dont know what the hell you are thinking packing racers for cheaper than other rigs...thats just plain crazy. Its not that "bad" riggers charge more, its that it is a more involved closing process...it only makes sense to charge more. Why do you charge more for a canopy reline than a canopy patch? My guess would be because its more complex and time consuming.

My rigger charges more for a racer...he doesn't refuse to pack them like your tonsil analogy.

As far as your bridle incident...do you WAIT for a malfunction before you improve your gear? Maybe thats why you still jump a racer and a round reserve as well as taht batwing. When something bad finally does happen to you related to your racer...will you then decide to consider other choices? Just wondering. I'm done replying to this nonsense. Its going nowhere and you are only embarrasing yourself with personal attacks. Good luck.


Spizzzarko

May 13, 2005, 8:47 PM
Post #95 of 123 (815 views)
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Re: [crazydiver] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Dude,

Dont stoop to his level.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

May 13, 2005, 9:56 PM
Post #96 of 123 (799 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey dummy

In reply to:
With that dumbshit attitude

Is it possible for you to have a conversation with anyone without calling them names. That may have been fine in high school but now that you are all grown up, it is better to use facts and reason to support your view. Try it sometime, not all that hard, if you have facts.


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 13, 2005, 11:32 PM
Post #97 of 123 (791 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is it possible for you to have a conversation with anyone without calling them names. That may have been fine in high school but now that you are all grown up, it is better to use facts and reason to support your view. Try it sometime, not all that hard, if you have facts.

Fellas

you're right about the name calling. No place for that here. I apologize to those I offended. It certainly ain't gonna help make my point. I'll do that at a later time and in a different manner.

We'll try it again later.

Brett


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 8:13 AM
Post #98 of 123 (775 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That isn't a reason why Slinks are not better than Rapide links.

Sure it is - not for everybody, for the person jumping them. imho it's always better to be jumping equipment you know than equipment you don't know. Right or wrong, many jumpers - especially those who started jumping years ago - have no desire to change something that works for them... even if the alternate is stronger, less bulky and less likely to dent slider grommets.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 10:31 AM
Post #99 of 123 (763 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Sure it is - not for everybody, for the person jumping them.

I see what you are saying, but someone's comfort level with gear doesn't change if the gear is better or not. Some people are more comfortable with a round reserve. That doesn't make round reserves better than square reserves. I can see why someone would stay with something that works and they are comfortable with, but that doesn't make a round reserve better than a square reserve.

Someone may be comfortable with an old modified B-4 and a chest mount with round canopies, but that doesn't mean a Vector III with square canopies isn't better.
Derek


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 14, 2005, 1:01 PM
Post #100 of 123 (744 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some people are more comfortable with a round reserve. That doesn't make round reserves better than square reserves. I can see why someone would stay with something that works and they are comfortable with, but that doesn't make a round reserve better than a square reserve.
Quote:

It's all semantics, I guess. We all are saying the same thing really.

Round parachutes are not better than ram-air parachutes and vice versa. Ram-air parachutes are not better than round parachutes. Ram-air parachutes have more forward speed, a better glide ratio and have the ability to provide lift for a potentially softer landind, etc. But they are not 'better'. Using that line of thinking would mean that "It would have been better if he was jumping a round parachute on that one, he wouldn't have hooked it in and broke his femur".

Brett


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 2:54 PM
Post #101 of 123 (1121 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Round parachutes are not better than ram-air parachutes and vice versa.

Then why aren't more people jumping round mains if ram-airs aren't better?

Derek


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 4:31 PM
Post #102 of 123 (1116 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then why aren't more people jumping round mains if ram-airs aren't better?

It could be said that the Velocity is a "better" parachute than is the Spectre - higher performance, shallower glide angle, etc. But is a Velocity a "better" parachute for me than a Spectre would be? Absolutely not.

One size doesn't fit all. To each his/her own. What's better/right/perfect for you may not be what's better/right/perfect for someone else. Doesn't matter if we're discussing canopies, containers, AADs, connector links, pilot chutes, jumpsuits, altimeters... We each make our own decisions as to which equipment is "better."


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 4:55 PM
Post #103 of 123 (1113 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

The difference between a Spectre and Velocity is like the difference between a Slink and a Wrap-it soft link. The difference between a round and square is like the difference between a Slink and a Rapide link. New vs. old technology.

Soft links are an improvement and better than Rapide links like squares were an improvement on, and better than rounds.

If I am wrong, then I am in the majority, 81% at last count.

Derek


(This post was edited by Hooknswoop on May 14, 2005, 4:58 PM)


hookitt  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 4:56 PM
Post #104 of 123 (1112 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It could be said that the Velocity is a "better" parachute than is the Spectre

It could be said that way but it hasn't been.

So I'll restate the question. Wink

Quote:
Then why aren't more people jumping round mains if ram-airs aren't better?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 5:13 PM
Post #105 of 123 (1107 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then why aren't more people jumping round mains if ram-airs aren't better?

Fashion. Tongue

It all depends on the application. imho for sport jumpers ram air mains are "better" - remember the old saying "a round will get you down but a square will get you there"?

But soldiers and some smokejumpers still jump round mains - for those applications someone has decided that rounds are "better."

We could take the argument further - when ram airs took over from rounds in the sport arena, landing injuries decreased - when I started jumping it was rare for anyone to break a bone landing but I heard many stories about injuries sustained under PC's. Now that zp ram airs have taken over from F111 ram airs, landing injuries are fairly common.

Are zp mains "better" than F111 mains? I think so and I'd guess that you do too. But if this is true, why do so many more people get hurt landing zp mains than did landing F111 mains? Isn't a canopy that requires less skill from the pilot to land safely "better"?

Thread drift is so much fun! Sly


hookitt  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 5:17 PM
Post #106 of 123 (1111 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It all depends on the application. imho for sport jumpers ram air mains are "better"

Since this isn't smokejumper.military.dz.com ... that means we agree. Smile


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 5:20 PM
Post #107 of 123 (1109 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, so if I narrow the statement down by (specifing the application) from "Slinks are better than Rapide links", to "Slinks are better for attaching a main or reserve canopy to risers in sport skydiving than Rapide links because they are stronger, less bulky, easier to install and inspect, don't damage the slider grommets, etc", would that work?

Derek


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 5:28 PM
Post #108 of 123 (1106 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK, so if I narrow the statement down by (specifing the application) from "Slinks are better than Rapide links", to "Slinks are better for attaching a main or reserve canopy to risers in sport skydiving than Rapide links because they are stronger, less bulky, easier to install and inspect, don't damage the slider grommets, etc", would that work?

Works for me.

But I'm still not going to rush out and put SLinks on my canopies as long Rapide links continue to work fine for my gear and how I fly it.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

May 14, 2005, 5:32 PM
Post #109 of 123 (1102 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Works for me.

LOLWink

Quote:
But I'm still not going to rush out and put SLinks on my canopies as long Rapide links continue to work fine for my gear and how I fly it.

Works for me. Rapide links still work. Slinks are just better.

Derek


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 14, 2005, 6:14 PM
Post #110 of 123 (1098 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Better? Its is just a question of defining what is better.

I have 9 jumps on RS4/A East German made rig used mostly in military. They are about 74 m^2 in area.
They are more reliable, but more than 14kgs in weight, its a pain to pack and landings were unpredictable. Over 4m/s wind you can expect to land backwards....
Would you exchange your current gear for a RS4/A /BE-8(round reserve) ?

No? It seems your current gear is 'better', than that.


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 14, 2005, 10:14 PM
Post #111 of 123 (1077 views)
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Re: [Spizzzarko] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Dude,

Watch your tone. Getting mad at someone over the internet is a worthless pursuit. It just makes you look bad. Please watch your tone and your language.
Spizzzarko
Rules The World!!!
Quote:


Hey, I don't see your name in green! Besides, who cares about his tone? He jumps a batwing. Let's face it, why bother using slinks on a batwing? That would be like getting a K&N filter for your Corolla. Ooooh, gotta pull that slider down and get some speed, right?


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 14, 2005, 11:21 PM
Post #112 of 123 (1071 views)
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Re: [murps2000] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I gotta K&N filter on my sporty! Is that bad?


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 14, 2005, 11:37 PM
Post #113 of 123 (1067 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So I'll restate the question: "Then why aren't more people jumping round mains if ram-airs aren't better?"

The reason I jump a square parachute is because it's more fun to jump and it packs up smaller and I don't have to wear jump boots and I like the colors and It's easier to make it back from a bad spot and a whole bunch of other reasons. Not because it's better. That's like saying big tits are 'better' because they're bigger. No, they are just bigger! And if you like big tits than that makes them better to you, not to everyone.

A couple thousand posts and replys ago, you kept asking for evidence that soft links 'were not worse than' rapide links. Or something like that...

And now the best argument you can muster is whether some thing is 'better' than something else?

I'm going to resist the urge to get all 'insulting' with you because I ain't going down that road again. But, oohh, it's hard not to....

Brett


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 15, 2005, 7:30 AM
Post #114 of 123 (1042 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, bro, then you need slinks on that Batwing! How else are you going to milk every last ounce of speed out of that ultra high performance wing? Or since you jump a Racer, maybe you should just trade up for one of those hot Firebolts!


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 15, 2005, 10:17 AM
Post #115 of 123 (1018 views)
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Re: [murps2000] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

You must have a lot of jumps on a Racer, huh? Have you tried a Firebolt? Or a Batwing?


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 15, 2005, 10:21 AM
Post #116 of 123 (1018 views)
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Re: [murps2000] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

You must have a lot of experience jumping Racers, huh? Have you tried a Firebolt yet? How many jumps do you have on a Batwing? It sounds like you might have a bit more experience than I do on those types of equipment. Maybe you could give me some pointers.


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 15, 2005, 3:58 PM
Post #117 of 123 (992 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

You must have a lot of experience jumping Racers, huh? Have you tried a Firebolt yet? How many jumps do you have on a Batwing? It sounds like you might have a bit more experience than I do on those types of equipment. Maybe you could give me some pointers.
Quote:

No, never jumped a Racer, but I've tried them on before. One was a tandem. It was really well built, and I bet they really are as comfortable as they say. I would jump a Racer in a second, if the velcro was in good shape, but it's not my first choice of containers. Of course, I'm jumping a Reflex, so what would I know? You could give me all kinds of shit about that.

I've got no interest in Firebolts, I was just being a dick. You see, as to the Batwing, well, yes, I'm afraid I have one of those dark secrets stuffed in a bag in my closet.

I got shamed for two years jumping that thing. Mostly I just blew it off. I figured I could swoop it okay, and I didn't think it was that bad of a canopy. Then one day a friend of mine intervened. We were up at Cross Keys having the usual good time to be had up there, and innocently, I started thinking out loud about getting a reline.

All of a sudden my friend just yelled at me to "Stop! Put the Batwing down, and step away from it slowly..." I was a little shocked. I looked at him and could see the tension in his eyes. I was puzzled, too, but then I could see other friends staring at me, as well. I thought about what I'd said, and slowly it began to dawn on me. They were right. The realization began to set in. I just had to put it down. Like most people with this kind of problem, I was in denial. It was tough to admit, but I had to come to grips with the fact that a Batwing is like an IROC-Z Camaro or a mullet. Long gone are the days when anyone will think you are cool for having one.

I'm really thankful to all my friends who cared enough to help me through that dark time. Thanks, Donnie, wherever you are.

So now I'll jump it at night when no one can see, or I'll ground launch it.

Unfortunately, no one will think you are cool for using french links, either. But they're okay for night jumps and ground launching.


(This post was edited by murps2000 on May 15, 2005, 9:48 PM)


brettpobastad  (D 12823)

May 15, 2005, 4:20 PM
Post #118 of 123 (988 views)
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Re: [murps2000] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

aaahhaa, ha, ha. That's pretty good!

I just packed a reserve on my buddy, Dano's Reflex. Came out nice....


Amazon  (D License)

May 15, 2005, 9:36 PM
Post #119 of 123 (961 views)
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Re: [murps2000] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Gee sounds like the intervention worked.. maybe another one is in order here as wellWink


Skydive2  (D 24800)

May 24, 2005, 1:17 PM
Post #120 of 123 (891 views)
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Re: [brettpobastad] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Maybe you could give me some pointers.

if you have 5000 jumps and still fly a batwing, maybe you just gay.

lance


murps2000  (D 23114)

May 25, 2005, 7:53 PM
Post #121 of 123 (821 views)
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Re: [Skydive2] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

if you have 5000 jumps and still fly a batwing, maybe you just gay.
Quote:


YES! YES! Thank you for that one!

At least no one ever tried to shag me while flying mine!


boozy  (D License)

Jun 2, 2005, 6:27 PM
Post #122 of 123 (758 views)
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Re: Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had some trouble finding just one reserve slink to buy, as they come in packs of 4 for like $35. Does anybody know where I might buy just one?


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 2, 2005, 6:33 PM
Post #123 of 123 (756 views)
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Re: [boozy] Slinks! [In reply to] Can't Post

You could call PD and ask, but generally speaking they come in packs of 4. See if some other jumpers or maybe a rigger could use the other 3 and split the cost of the pack with that person.

That's what I did to get 1 Slink for my D-bag attatchement.



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