sangiro
Head Honcho
Nov 8, 2004, 4:37 AM
Post #1 of 29
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Welcome Tunnel Rats!
Can't Post
Heya all,
Welcome to the new Dropzone.com forum for wind tunnel discussions. The purpose of this forum is to discuss tunnel related training and flight techniques and to get information about and discuss feedback on different tunnels across the world.
Although we understand that there are a limited number of organizations involved in providing these services, and that their names will be prominent in this forum (not unlike the Wing Suit forum) this is not a place for companies to peddle their wares. The no advertising rule applies here as in all other forums.
Tunnel Camps should be posted to the Calendar. Feel free to come back here and tell us about what you learned or give a report on how the camp went. The forum is also not the place for individuals to advertise available tunnel time or open slots. Please use the Classifieds for that.
By sticking to these simple guidelines you can help ensure that this becomes a useful resource about tunnel flight and is not over-run by promotions and advertising.
SkymonkeyONE is in da house!
Have fun!
(This post was edited by sangiro on Nov 8, 2004, 4:42 AM)
While there may be people out there with more time in the cone than I have, our desire to keep our moderator pool as small as possible lands me here keeping this forum in check. Just as a matter of reference though, I have accumulated 254 hours of tunnel time, all of it in the military tunnel on Fort Bragg. I am possibly best known in that capacity as being the guy who flew Joan Lunden in the tunnel on "Behind Closed Doors" which has played probably 100 times on TV.
Please just keep Sangiro's "no advertising" rules in mind when posting here and all will be well.
Thanks for finally creating a LZ for us tunnel junkies. Only one question from me though, what's it doing in the Skydiving Forum?? I would've thought that it would belong next to Base Jumping in the Related Sports.. since it's not skydiving and is a sport unto itself.
But glad to have it somewhere. Will all the misc tunnelposts around the other forums be transferred over??? It would help to keep the repitition down for sure!
Blue Skies & Fast Air
slotperfect (D 13014)
Moderator
Nov 23, 2004, 5:16 AM
Post #6 of 29
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Will all the misc tunnelposts around the other forums be transferred over???
Good question . . . there are a LOT of them to move if that's the case. I move a lot of location related tunnel threads from "General Skydiving" to "Events & Places To Jump."
When HH started the "Instructors" forum, he left it up to the Mod (me ). Whether to move them or not. I moved some very relevant ones that fit better in the new forum, and others PMd me asking to move theirs over as well.
I will likely move all the tunnel-related threads in forums which I mod over here in short order. PM the mod of those other forums and ask them to move those which you think are important.
Also, to answer John, I have always kept a running tally. It's all comprised of the number of full days my team was in their for training, hours we were teaching students at the GB club, when I was doing demos at SWC, plus the number of hours I spent in there at lunch during my last five years at SWC (we owned the tunnel).
Only one question from me though, what's it doing in the Skydiving Forum?? I
There will be a little reorganization in the near future. I appreciate the fact that this may be a sport unto itself for some people. There's also a large group of people to whom a wind tunnel isn't much more than a theme-park ride. I'm not focussed on them either. These folks are all welcome to share their experiences and thoughts here but in the context of this site I'm mostly focussed on tunnel discussions relating to skydiving training.
To that extend, I think this belongs in a "training" category, which we don't have... just yet.
(This post was edited by sangiro on Nov 23, 2004, 9:22 AM)
Ya know why I come here, even though I don't consider my tunnel time as training for skydiving? Because there are like minded individuals here and at the DZ... people who can appreciate the freedom of thought, movement and thinking outside the norm. This mindset is not available from just anyone, but usually comes as a package with skydivers, tunnel flyers & pilots in general, the understanding of what's important, and about knowing your body or vessel and enjoying life to it's fullest today.
Good luck with the re-organization..and thanks for the place to land.
(This post was edited by Bodyflight.Net on Nov 23, 2004, 8:11 AM)
Thanks for creating this forum and thank you SM1 for moderating it, I know I will be in here a lot. Any chance of adding a tunnel time field into the profile?
In addition to "crack house" maybe we should call this forum "the sewer" since it's where all the tunnel rats will be congregating
I agree a tunnel time field in the profile would help other filter through some of the crap advice that may pop up. If you can see that the person has amassed a bit of time, it may help you make better decisions on advice to take.
I agree a tunnel time field in the profile would help other filter through some of the crap advice that may pop up. If you can see that the person has amassed a bit of time, it may help you make better decisions on advice to take.
Thanks for the new forum HH U rock!
I disagree and it's meaningless. I have a fraction of the tunnel time SM1 does, but that doesn't mean my advice is useless, does it? I still get coaching in there especially for FS stuff, but I bring AFF students in there all the time. Jump numbers and years in the sport are a better indicators. I'd like to see freefall time and/or ratings.
Never said your advice is useless. I said it would help others judge what advice to take since tunnel flying and sky flying are different (esp. freeflying).
Maybe not being in the tunnel much, it didn't occur to you that freeflying in the tunnel is very different than in the air. I didn't ask for attitude I was just putting out an idea for HH to chew on.
(This post was edited by Paige on Nov 25, 2004, 6:29 AM)
I disagree and it's meaningless. I have a fraction of the tunnel time SM1 does, but that doesn't mean my advice is useless, does it?
The amount of tunnel time someone has is definitely not meaningless. Yes, it means something different then the amount of air time someone has or the amount of jumps someone has but it is definitely not meaningless. Not having tunnel time does not make someone's advice useless, it just means it has to be taken in a different context when talking about tunnel related issues.
If I want to learn how to run up a tunnel wall, back flip and run down the other wall I would want an answer from someone who has done that in the tunnel. No amount of skydives will teach someone how to do that, only tunnel.
Since this is a tunnel forum I would expect people to ask at least *some* questions related specifically to the tunnel. For these types of questions I think the amount of tunnel time someone has is very important.
When it comes to tunnel flying there are certain things that you might be able to do perfectly in the sky but not at all in the tunnel. Someone who has never flown in the tunnel or only has a limited amount of time may not realize this and inadvertently give advice trying to help but may in fact be the wrong thing to do in the tunnel.
In any case, I don't think that having a tunnel time field in the profile would hurt. I feel that the more you know about someone's flying experience (jumps, air time, ratings, tunnel time) just helps people make better informed decisions.
Never said your advice is useless. I said it would help others judge what advice to take since tunnel flying and sky flying are different (esp. freeflying).
Maybe not being in the tunnel much, it didn't occur to you that freeflying in the tunnel is very different than in the air. I didn't ask for attitude I was just putting out an idea for HH to chew on.
No it didn't occur to me that sit flying or any flying is different in the tunnel. I gave an opinion, and you took that as showing an attitude. I guess you don't get it. You should check your own attitude. This is an Internet forum and anyone seeking any reputable advice would speak directly to a tunnel coach or their instructors.
I would hope that my 24 hours of freefall experience and 450 AFF jumps would be enough for you, but may be my 8 hours of tunnel isn't.
My intent was not to offend you but whether you ask or not an opinion may be given.
I think tunnel time would be relevant, especially if someone's posting a question about wind speed inconsistancies, entering and exiting the tunnel, or what kinds of drills work well in the tunnel. Someone with a hundred tunnel hours would be better suited to answer those questions than someone with a hundred freefall hours and five minutes of tunnel time.
I think tunnel time would be relevant, especially if someone's posting a question about wind speed inconsistancies, entering and exiting the tunnel, or what kinds of drills work well in the tunnel. Someone with a hundred tunnel hours would be better suited to answer those questions than someone with a hundred freefall hours and five minutes of tunnel time.
I would hope that somebody with 5 minutes of tunnel time would be embarrassed to offer tunnel advice. Besides 100 hrs TT would equate to 6,000+ skydives. Sounds like a professional or someone who's been around and has most likely taken advantage of the tunnel.
Skydivers should know when and who to offer advice to. If someone wants to give advice that's fine. The drills you mention would be better addressed by an instructor or tunnel coach which many ADV 4 way competitors are.
Would it be better to provide tunnel time under your avatar, or on your profile page? If everyone feels it's important to advertise their tunnel time you can petition Sangiro. People will offer advice whether they are qualified or not, however I see most just want to share their experience. I see it all the time in S&T. If somebody wants to have credibility, become a coach.
I would hope that somebody with 5 minutes of tunnel time would be embarrassed to offer tunnel advice.
Yeah right. We've got people with 100 jumps who've been booted off DZ's for dangerous actions and poor canopy choices telling others how to hook turn.......
You should check your own attitude. I would hope that my 24 hours of freefall experience and 450 AFF jumps would be enough for you, but may be my 8 hours of tunnel isn't.
My intent was not to offend you but whether you ask or not an opinion may be given.
I was not the only person who read your post as such. I wanted to make sure it wasn't just me. Maybe this is all one stupid and pointless misscommunication.
I just did 40 mins with an Austrian tunnel rat named Fabian, with Rob Laidlaw and with Gary from Majic the past week in Orlando - what a great toy... I miss it already! (My pecs don't)
I suggested this months ago in the suggestions and comments forum, as a way for people who have yet to jump but have acquired tunnel time to show that they have at least some related experience.
I think all the rats have mentioned this at one point in time. I'm so glad we have it now Just cause you're a good skydiver doesn't mean you can figure out how to walk on the walls of a tunnel.
It being the forum? I thought Avion was suggesting a profile field? This does not (yet?) exist.
In reply to:
Just cause you're a good skydiver doesn't mean you can figure out how to walk on the walls of a tunnel.
The converse is also true. Being able to walk (walls/floor) in the tunnel is a useful skill in the tunnel, but does not translate well to the air.
There are many things people have done that they want recognition for or validation from. Should each of these exist in their profile as a separate field? What is the litmus test for inclusion? Where is the line drawn? The existing jump profile does not have a field for freefall time, only jump numbers, but certainly someone who does only hop-n-pops is less "qualified" to offer freefall advice than another with equivalent jump numbers from full altitude; there is currently no distinction. Further, I presently have accrued in the neighborhood of fifty hours "in the wind", but you would be better off asking how to back-fly from another with far less tunnel time.
Perhaps the better validation is to let someone's posting history - quality of information, not volume - establish their "credentials". There are some on these fora with more jumps than myself whom I would not seek for advice, and many people with far fewer from whom I would crave it. As in most fora (not just dropzone.com), authenticity is earned via a developed reputation, not the mention of a name or number.
But I do like the idea of a tunnel specific forum. It will be interesting to see the subject matter develop, especially as more tunnels are opened.
Yes, entries for both canopy rides and freefall/tunnel time in the profile. It would be pleasant to be able to list somewhere other than my log how much time I've acquired.
). Whether to move them or not. I moved some very relevant ones that fit better in the new forum, and others PMd me asking to move theirs over as well. 
Oh, ok. 
