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What can we do about Skyride?

 

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diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 12:31 PM
Post #126 of 2276 (27446 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If the USPA would implement an ehtincs code for group members, say, by Jan, 1, then give 90 days for compliance, this guy would be out of group memebership by the spring.

Is Skyride a group member?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 26, 2004, 2:12 PM
Post #127 of 2276 (27409 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Not exactly, but all three of their DZ's are. Same owners of all the businesses.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 26, 2004, 3:54 PM
Post #128 of 2276 (27385 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Its fraud. Its theft. Its unethical. Its bad for skydiving.

BB, I agree with you 110% on that, definately they've gone well above and beyond what would be considered ethical and have broken some laws while doing that.

Its going to take a team of DZs working together or better yet the USPA to bring the legal issues to bear, simply due to the costs involved, though.

I just wanted to make a point about individual DZs accepting or not accepting the certificates and that how I don't feel like its the best solution at this point.

If they are doing something illegal (and I don't have enough details to know) then, since they cross state lines, it becomes a federal matter. Maybe the mail fraud laws apply, or racketeering, or plain old fraud... Anyhow, if anyone has actual knowledge of illegal activities they should contact the nearest US Attorney's office.


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 27, 2004, 7:57 AM
Post #129 of 2276 (27320 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Being familiar with the Detroit area, I went to SkydiveDetroit.com. As far as I could see, they made no representation about any physical location. There were references to a toll-free number on the site.

There are only two things I can see. Are any of the pictures they use protected by copyright? Do the owners care, and have they done anything? If there are DZ's taking the certificates, then I think it may come back to the benefit that those DZ's provide to Skyride.com. That provides support, and there isn't anything illegal in that.
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(This post was edited by dreamsville on Oct 27, 2004, 8:20 AM)


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 27, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #130 of 2276 (27316 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I'd love to find them using one of my pictures... stealing work AND using it to make money -- you could get a pretty penny or two out of it.

Most of their sites suck too... they're just stupid...

Quote:
No skydiving center in Ohio has the amenities available at the Cincinnati Skydiving Center. The facilities at Cincinnati Skydiving Center have been designed with your comfort and convenience in mind. In addition to the top notch facilities, you will also enjoy the following amenities:
All student rigs are equipped with all of the latest safety features, and have state of the art AAD's (Automatic Activation Devices).
Skydive Philadelphia can arrange all of your Rigging Services.
Competitively priced lift tickets.

Huh... well if Richmond stopped taking them, I wonder where they're sending people now. Philadelphia? Laugh


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 27, 2004, 8:10 AM
Post #131 of 2276 (27313 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
With Google AdWords you create your own ads, choose keywords to help us match your ads to your audience and pay only when someone clicks on them.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?! LaughLaugh


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:06 AM
Post #132 of 2276 (27290 views)
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     Re: [dreamsville] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
There are only two things I can see. Are any of the pictures they use protected by copyright? Do the owners care, and have they done anything?

All pictures are protected - you don't need to "copyright" them to get this.


f1shlips  (A 44901)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:33 AM
Post #133 of 2276 (27277 views)
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     Re: [kelpdiver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
All pictures are protected - you don't need to "copyright" them to get this.

Exactly, its a "copy right" -- ie a right afforded to you by the govt. Not a "copyright" a thing you have to ask someone to get.


tombuch  (D 8514)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:51 AM
Post #134 of 2276 (27263 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
With Google AdWords you create your own ads, choose keywords to help us match your ads to your audience and pay only when someone clicks on them.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?! LaughLaugh

Hey, that's pretty fun, and it only takes a few minutes each day!

-tb


justchrisdsp  (D 28217)

Oct 27, 2004, 10:53 AM
Post #135 of 2276 (27235 views)
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     Re: [tombuch] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i called up the one in alabama, pell city, i asked them if it was a different dropzone under a different name, i said i was interested in a tandem and that i was close to the dropzone i mentioned, no shit they said "yes that's us" so i was like ok, then i said are yall in the city it says yall are in, the guy goes yup that's us. so i asked him to confirm the directions from huntville. the dropzone he was lying about and telling me he was is about 20 minutes south of huntsville, he told me i had to drive all the way down to bham and take 20/59 to get there, and i said, but isnt where i'm going between huntsville and bham, he said dont worry just follow the directions and you'll be there in no time, he then tried to get me to give him a credit card number to reserve my spot for a tandem. so no shit, if i had been a whuffo, i would have had to drive 2 1/2 hours out of my way passing a perfectly good dropzone that is 20 minutes away to make a tandem. not to mention that pell city has its dropzone in the local phonebooks of every major city in alabama, plus a few in surrounding states. i personally think this is bullshit. i think the uspa should step in and make some kind of rule about ethical business practice. the only thing that 1-800 skydive, and skyride are doing is killing the enthusiasm that bring in new jumpers. if i had had to drive 21/2 hours to make my first jump because some asshole wanted to make an extra dollar then i never would have continued in this sport. i have called pell city numerous times asking if they were different dropzones in alabama, i asked them if they were emerald coast, i asked them if they where skydive alabama, and every time they have falsely said that yes they are the dropzone mentioned. i dont know what the fuck kind of operation they are running there but it is complete bullshit. they need to be shut down, if not by the bbb. then the uspa, and if not by the uspa then by jumpers. business practices like this should not be tolerated by anyone. oh and by the way. i hope everyone has a safe and illusrtious jumping career. even those assholes at ASC, and skyride and all other bullshit organizations. i hope they get their asses raped in jail, but let them jump safely.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Oct 27, 2004, 12:44 PM
Post #136 of 2276 (27204 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
i called up the one in alabama, pell city, i asked them if it was a different dropzone under a different name, i said i was interested in a tandem and that i was close to the dropzone i mentioned, no shit they said "yes that's us" so i was like ok, then i said are yall in the city it says yall are in, the guy goes yup that's us. so i asked him to confirm the directions from huntville. the dropzone he was lying about and telling me he was is about 20 minutes south of huntsville, he told me i had to drive all the way down to bham and take 20/59 to get there, and i said, but isnt where i'm going between huntsville and bham, he said dont worry just follow the directions and you'll be there in no time, he then tried to get me to give him a credit card number to reserve my spot for a tandem. so no shit, if i had been a whuffo, i would have had to drive 2 1/2 hours out of my way passing a perfectly good dropzone that is 20 minutes away to make a tandem. not to mention that pell city has its dropzone in the local phonebooks of every major city in alabama, plus a few in surrounding states. i personally think this is bullshit. i think the uspa should step in and make some kind of rule about ethical business practice. the only thing that 1-800 skydive, and skyride are doing is killing the enthusiasm that bring in new jumpers. if i had had to drive 21/2 hours to make my first jump because some asshole wanted to make an extra dollar then i never would have continued in this sport. i have called pell city numerous times asking if they were different dropzones in alabama, i asked them if they were emerald coast, i asked them if they where skydive alabama, and every time they have falsely said that yes they are the dropzone mentioned. i dont know what the fuck kind of operation they are running there but it is complete bullshit. they need to be shut down, if not by the bbb. then the uspa, and if not by the uspa then by jumpers. business practices like this should not be tolerated by anyone. oh and by the way. i hope everyone has a safe and illusrtious jumping career. even those assholes at ASC, and skyride and all other bullshit organizations. i hope they get their asses raped in jail, but let them jump safely.

Now you see why I quit going there after 7 great years under the former owners. I only live a 10 minute drive from there but would rather drive an hour and 45 minutes to Cullman to get my jumps!!!

ASC Cedartown and ASC Pell City can just kiss my ass!

Blue Skies
Billy


bigway

Oct 27, 2004, 3:03 PM
Post #137 of 2276 (27154 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

so all this talk for the last five days sound really good.....but is anyone going to do anything about this?
there is enough people here that want something done about.
Now are the american jumpers in these forums going to team togethor and make the USPA do something about it?
I am sure you have an AGM where enough people could get togethor to force your association to do something.
I am very interested to see if this forum will turn in to action instead of just debating and arguing.
I am not from america but if i was i would be right uo for dedicating my spare time to bring these guys down.
Good Luck guys and do something about it!Wink


justchrisdsp  (D 28217)

Oct 27, 2004, 4:41 PM
Post #138 of 2276 (27127 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

bigway is right, we need to petition the uspa to do somehting about it, are there any law buffs around here that can help me out with getting a petition sent around, maybe get some signatures. i am a little young to understand the full process of taking something like this on but what i lack in knowledge i will gladly make up for with youthfull exuberance. i say we get a petition started or some kind of signing list saying that if the uspa does not do something about this we will not renew our membership or some kind of other monetary threat of action. it seems that money is the only reason people get off their asses to do anything anyway. like i said i would love to have a lawyer or someone experienced with such an action to help me get something like this started. hope to hear some good responses


bigway

Oct 27, 2004, 5:15 PM
Post #139 of 2276 (27113 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i am pretty sire you will not need a petition but at your agm maybeyou have something like proxy votes that you can all put your votes togethor and have one person represent you all.
something along these lines. whoever listens to a petition?


flyangel2

Oct 27, 2004, 7:13 PM
Post #140 of 2276 (27086 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
i say we get a petition started or some kind of signing list saying that if the uspa does not do something about this we will not renew our membership or some kind of other monetary threat of action.

Might want to go with some other kind of monetary threat. If you aren't a USPA memeber, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Oct 28, 2004, 5:18 AM
Post #141 of 2276 (27049 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If you aren't a USPA memeber, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.

That statement is not always true.

Chris Welker


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 28, 2004, 6:18 AM
Post #142 of 2276 (27031 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Someone hit on the easiest answer earlier in this thread.Go to your DZO this weekend and ask them to stop taking the Skyride certificates.It's as simple as that.If a DZO can't see the pattern that has emerged then they deserve to have a DZ pop up right next to them.


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 6:48 AM
Post #143 of 2276 (27018 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
If you aren't a USPA member, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.

That statement is not always true.

Chris Welker

Then that means that the USPA DZ isn't following the USPA guildlines. If a non-USPA member is jumping without the USPA membership and gets hurt, then the DZ is taking a chance of losing it's USPA membership. I know there are some DZOs that take that chance, but I think the numbers for those that require you to be a USPA member far out weight those that don't. I'm not willing to take that chance.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 7:02 AM
Post #144 of 2276 (27011 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

There are even non-USPA DZs that require USPA membership to jump there.

Dave


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 28, 2004, 7:16 AM
Post #145 of 2276 (26999 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Then that means that the USPA DZ isn't following the USPA guildlines.
First, not all DZs are USPA members.
Second, I've jumped with an expired membership before - I showed my card at manifest, and no one paid attention to the expiration date (I wasn't trying, I actually didn't realize it was expired.)

That being said, I don't think that's the answer. I agree, we should pressure DZOs to not take the skyride certificate, if you feel that strongly about it. Vote with your wallet - don't go to a DZ that does, and make sure they know why they're not getting your money. Aside from that, I'm sure there's some legal battles that could be fought - stealing other people's work is still a crime.
And isn't it about election time?

Ok, I'll add this on in case you haven't visted the 'elections' forum (you have though, right? Wink)

This was posted by MakeItHappen here (note to Jan - I'd put your name/position in your signature at least until elections are over. People reading your answers probably don't know who 'MakeItHappen' is)

Quote:
I presented information on the SkyRide operation to the Group Membership Committee that resulted in a letter of disapproval of SkyRide's business practices. These practices have not changed so USPA's attorney is being consulted.
SkyRide operation was put on the main agenda, that prompted SkyRide owner Cary Quattrochi to attend a BOD meeting. I fielded many email and phone inquiries about SkyRide and have elevated the awareness of their business practices.


(This post was edited by wildblue on Oct 28, 2004, 7:27 AM)


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #146 of 2276 (26979 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
First, not all DZs are USPA members.
Second, I've jumped with an expired membership before - I showed my card at manifest, and no one paid attention to the expiration date (I wasn't trying, I actually didn't realize it was expired.)

Yes, I know not all DZs are USPA members.

You said that you jumped with an expired membership. Do you think that is the norm? Was it a small DZ or some place like Eloy or Perris Valley?

I know and trust Jan, and believe she will do what she can.


Fast  (D 28237)

Oct 28, 2004, 9:34 AM
Post #147 of 2276 (26942 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

This is a fun read about the criminal implications of copyright law.

http://www.usdoj.gov/...ercrime/ipmanual.htm



Anyways, I think that the best way to deal with them is to ensure that all copied work is registered band together and push for the government to press charges for copyright violation. That will at a minimum make them know we aren't happy.


If travel is your problem I am sure that you can have your issues raised via proxy by another party to the situation etc. The CEOs of the record companies didn't show up at every little hick town where they wanted to press charges against someone for downloading music.


All the people who have had websites ripped off, pictures stolen, etc need to work together and deal with that part of it. Outside of that it will take a lot of work and the gathering of complaints from decieved customers. Getting DZs to stop taking the certificates is in theory a good idea but the competative nature of business and the greedy nature people have will prevent them from working together to stop it.


(This post was edited by Fast on Oct 28, 2004, 9:35 AM)


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 10:55 AM
Post #148 of 2276 (26901 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Was it a small DZ or some place like Eloy or Perris Valley?

Big DZ - YES. I know someone that regularly jumps at one of those big dz's that hasn't renewed in a quite a while.


Judy


sid  (D 20135)

Oct 28, 2004, 12:14 PM
Post #149 of 2276 (26877 views)
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     Re: [jlmiracle] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

well, y'all might like this. Some of you know that I run a couple of web sites, one of which http://www.sidsrigging.com was approached via an email today to provide a link to their site.

Quote:
From: Torin Goode <setoddric2004@yahoo.com>
>To: sid@sidsrigging.com
>Subject: Linking from your site.
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Hello. I represent 1-800-skyride. We are a Nationwide provider of outdoor adventure sports specializing in aeronautical sports such as hang-gliding, hot air ballooning, skydiving, glider rides, Bi-Plane / Warbird rides. We believe our site would be a great fit as a link on your web site. Our goal is to promote adventure sports and to build a lasting relationship.

I had to think about this for at least, oh a nanosecond, and replied with this
Quote:
Thank you for asking prior to linking. I have had experience with your company and I must, in this instance, refuse your request.

1-800-SKYRIDE are parasitical thieves who do more damage to the skydiving community than any other company I have ever known. You promote yourself through the use of "ghost websites" that purport to represent actual dropzones that do not exist. You plagiarize the web sites of real and reputable dropzones, such as the one run by friend Tim Eason, whose site you just blatantly copied, even using his personal photograph.

You continue to use copyrighted photographs to represent yourself without the permission of the photographers. Even worse you misrepresent the prices being charged, drawing people in with one price, then loading them with lift tickets, gear rental and training charges (bait and switch I believe).

Your company represents the very worst aspect of business marketing, if you could put the creative energy you use in decieving the public and stealing from your fellow skydivers into running an honorable and honest business I'd link to you in a heartbeat. As it is, I hope that your company crashes and burns and that you are exposed for the frauds and cheats that you are.

Please feel free to use this critique of your company in any advertising..........

VERYsincerely

Peter Draper - Owner Sid's Rigging

do you think I should wait for a reply Crazy


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 28, 2004, 12:58 PM
Post #150 of 2276 (26855 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

1-800-skydive is not quite the same thing as Skyride, because when you call the number you get a real drop zone that represents itself as the same entity to everyone, not as SkydiveSomethingelse. It's regional call forwarding. It's not the same thing as leading people to believe you are in one place and trying to get them to go to another.
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(This post was edited by dreamsville on Oct 28, 2004, 12:59 PM)


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