Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
What can we do about Skyride?

 


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:44 AM
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     What can we do about Skyride?  

There have been plenty of threads on here about Skyride and their unethical and even illegal tactics. The Capital Commentary stopped short of using their name this month.

Is there anything we, as a community, can do to shut this down before they cause lasting damage to the industry? Before the find a way to steal student business from the real dropzones and cause them to eventually shut down?

The only idea I have ever heard someone willing to take was to google bomb them using blogs. I've heard of photographers and instructors saying they can't afford to sue them, maybe we can put together a fund to help with the costs of a lawyer?

Any ideas or anyone willing to do this?

Added by slotperfect on 8 November 2007: Thanatos340 has compiled a list of dropzones by state that accept (or don't accept) Skyride Certificates. You can find that list here


(This post was edited by slotperfect on Nov 8, 2007, 6:12 PM)


weegegirl  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:49 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Dropzones need to stop honoring their certificates. Many dropzones buy into their bullshit. Target DZOs. Unimpressed


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:52 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do? [In reply to]  

If everyone stopped accepting their certificates they wouldn't get any money. It only requires a little solidarity to make it work. On the other hand it only requires one DZ to keep taking referrals to screw up that plan.

Is the USPA on board? What do they think? Do they feel sufficiently placed to send round a circular or are they too afraid of being sued by Skyride? (a real possibility).


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:55 AM
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     Re: [mr2mk1g] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Skyride is now opening up DZs with the money they have made from the certificates. Given enough time, there will be no use in talking to DZOs about it...they will be the DZO.

It seems that USPA is talking about it. I know that Jan has kept a web site logging the sites, etc.


weegegirl  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:58 AM
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     Post deleted by weegegirl [In reply to]

 


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:59 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Skyride is now opening up DZs with the money they have made from the certificates. Given enough time, there will be no use in talking to DZOs about it...they will be the DZO.

It seems that USPA is talking about it. I know that Jan has kept a web site logging the sites, etc.

Well, if that happens, experienced jumpers need to NEVER go to Skyride dz. Yes, they will still be tandem factories, but they won't be able to support large aircraft. Then, our dropzones can advertise our otters and king airs and whatnot.

Just some thoughts. Brainstorming. Those guys really piss me off. Mad


Many people go to the DZs that have been known to be involved with Skyride for a long time. I doubt you'll convince them to actually stop going there. If they aren't outraged by now they won't ever be.


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:00 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Skyride is now opening up DZs with the money they have made from the certificates. Given enough time, there will be no use in talking to DZOs about it...they will be the DZO.

It seems that USPA is talking about it. I know that Jan has kept a web site logging the sites, etc.

Well, if that happens, experienced jumpers need to NEVER go to Skyride dz. Yes, they will still be tandem factories, but they won't be able to support large aircraft. Then, our dropzones can advertise our otters and king airs and whatnot.

Just some thoughts. Brainstorming. Those guys really piss me off. Mad

Whuffos don't usually care about the plane that is used. Did you for your first jump? I know most people I talk to never ask that.

Once Skyride has a few DZs up and running, they can use the pre-existing (and successful) marketing infrastructure they have to push tandem biz in their direction. Thus killing off DZs that survive off of that portion of the sport.


(This post was edited by ChasingBlueSky on Oct 22, 2004, 9:02 AM)


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:01 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

tandems don't go to a specific DZ because they have an otter or king air.

dz's don't make money of fun jumpers - the money is in the tandems


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:07 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do? [In reply to]  

I don't see we can do anything about nor can we complain about their opening up their own DZ's - it's a free country, they're entitled to do so.

What they cannot do is advertise using cloned websites, fake locations, misleading adverts as they are doing. Those are the unlawful aspects (if any - I'm no expert on the law they're subject to) of their activities.

The USPA has a legal fund. Perhaps they should consider using it. Perhaps DZ's should consider putting in some money to the fund. Perhaps in order to fund the action (and also as an incentive to take the action) they should not only be looking for injunctive relief but also for damages in lost revenue because Skyride is stealing their custom.

It really isn't far from reality to expect to recover damages against these shisters given the blatant cloning that is going on and the ease with which documentary evidence could be obtained of the loss of buisness their activities represent.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Oct 22, 2004, 9:07 AM)


weegegirl  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:07 AM
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     Re: [mr2mk1g] What can we do? [In reply to]  

eh... nevermind... this place can be tougher than speaker's corner sometimes. have fun debating. i'm out. TongueLaughWink


(This post was edited by weegegirl on Oct 22, 2004, 9:20 AM)


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:09 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

the problem with that would be that given skyride's current advertising ethos all they would do is steal the photo's of the otter from the website of the orriginal DZ and pass them off as the experiance you would get at their DZ. That's exactly what they're currently doing.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:09 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Quote:
you need fun jumpers to support a plane larger than a C182 or so

Why? I'd say you need tandems to support a plane larger than a 182.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 22, 2004, 9:11 AM)


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:10 AM
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     Re: [mr2mk1g] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Funnie when I did my first tamdem I made part of the decision on the aircraft.. (I wanted to be able to go on the same load as my friends doing their first, that ruled out the cessna DZs) but I'll agree that MOST people wouldn't know a fuzzy river creature from a twin turboprop plane


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:15 AM
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Dropzones need to stop honoring their certificates. Many dropzones buy into their bullshit. Target DZOs

See, that's the paradox.
If a DZ 1 doesn't accept the certificates then DZ 2 most likely will. Why? Simply because if they don't someone will and as much as we hate Skyride, they do bring in new jumpers to our sport.

So its going to have to be an all or nothing approach to not honoring the certificates.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Oct 22, 2004, 9:31 AM)


Praetorian  (B 27234)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:22 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Pardon me while I put on my devils advocate hat:
What about the other services Hot air balloons, warbird rides biplane.. gliders ... bla bla bla
anyone have any knowledge how they handle these things, is it possible that they are unintentionally being unethical talking with their management, discussing our concern... ok end of cute and fuzzy bunney answer

The real problem is even if we could freeze them out of OUR DZs they already have one or more of their own AND they have other buisness that generate income; freezing them out would only give them more incentive to use the profits from their other ventures to open DZs. So maybe we NEED to talk with them, get them to change their pratices a little, enough to make the bad things they do to the sport balance with the promotion and intorduciton of new tandem thrill seekers (some of whom will continue and become studnets and as I understand it skyride isnt in the instruction biz .. yet).


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:28 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

How about start with the source.

1800skyride.com is registered by CASC, Inc (skydive123.com)

Skydive123.com is registered to:

Quattrocchi, Cary
1732 Pamela Circle
Marietta, GA 30060

...who also owns:

The National Skydiving Association, which apparently certifies only the safest dropzones. Uh huh.

More info: http://www.makeithappen.com/...eview/cedartown.html

So do something about it.

If you don't think this person is a scam artist, do some research. Read the testimonial letters at http://www.skydivingalabama.com and http://www.skydivecenter.com/

Some of the same people made their first jump in alabama and atlanta? And Nashville for that matter too. I think not.

So who jumps at ASC and knows this guy?

Here's a pic: http://www.skydivingalabama.com/staff/s800cary.jpg

And what the hell is the Eastern US Skydiving Championship that is hosted in both georgia and alabama?

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 22, 2004, 9:48 AM)


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Oct 22, 2004, 9:29 AM
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     Re: [AggieDave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

It comes down to a couple of things.
Call your USPA rep and voice your concerns. Email the USPA and voice your concerns.
Its all well and good that we can complain about this (which we have in several threads) but you have to take action.
Remember that they USPA is suppose to listen to its Membership. Thats you and me.
Do talk to your DZO/DZM and approach them with the facts.
Don't spend your money at their DZs. Don't honor their certificates.
Skyride may very well bring folks to the sport, but how many stay in and better yet...how many leave with a really bad taste in thier mouth?
Talk is cheap...stay informed, and take action.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:29 AM
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     Re: [Praetorian] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Personally I don't have a problem with them being in the market place - they have just as much a right to be there as anyone.

My only gripe is with some of the appalling marketing strategies they've adopted, examples of which have been posted here in the past.

Things such as stealing copyrighted material, stealing websites lock stock and barrel, passing themselves off as genuine provincial DZ's, lying to potential customers about where they operate, lying to potential customers about who's on their staff, lying about what planes they use, using photographs of planes belonging to other DZ's and claiming they're their own.

Whoever it is doing things like that, it tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth.


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:30 AM
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Why? I'd say you need tandems to support a plane larger than a 182.

Exactly.

That tw-otter isn't there because the DZ has 30-50 dedicated fun jumpers, its there because of the need for the student operations. If people ask the folks who are in the aircraft business for dropzones, they would generally agree with that statement.

Which is a neat paradox. You have to have a large student operation to support and need a large aircraft. Those students will become your fun jumpers (some will atleast), and you'll need the aircraft to continue to support your students and keep your fun jumpers. You need a larger base of students to justify another large aircraft, but you don't have a fun jumper base to help support it, so what do you do? You need a larger aircraft so your fun jumper base isn't battling for slots with the student jumpers, so what do you do?

That's why its really hard for 182 DZs to grow into turbine DZs, it can be done and it has been done, but its not easy to do with out some large finacial backing and the understanding that the investment will be invested at a lost initially (first few years).


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:35 AM
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Skyride may very well bring folks to the sport, but how many stay in and better yet...how many leave with a really bad taste in thier mouth?

My point isn't that they bring people into the sport.

My point is that if DZ 1 doesn't accept the certificate DZ 2 will. Simply to get the business and they know they have an in on the business since their competing DZ neighbors don't accept the certificate.

For instance, in Texas central/south region of Texas there are 6 DZs I can think of off the top of my head, all within 5 hours drive of each other. Lets say every DZ stopped taking the certificates (I don't know who does and who doesn't for sure), except for one of the DZs. How much business are the other DZs going to loose and that one DZ going to get?

Everyone likes their large turbine at their DZ, but without the student base its impossible to keep that plane.

So to me, it seems like the answer isn't in individual DZs refusing the certificate, its going to have to be an all or nothing if this route is taken. Negotiations with Skyride by the USPA would be an even better option, but I really don't see that happening until atleast after the elections this year.


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:39 AM
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     Re: [mr2mk1g] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
My only gripe is with some of the appalling marketing strategies they've adopted, examples of which have been posted here in the past.

Things such as stealing copyrighted material, stealing websites lock stock and barrel, passing themselves off as genuine provincial DZ's, lying to potential customers about where they operate, lying to potential customers about who's on their staff, lying about what planes they use, using photographs of planes belonging to other DZ's and claiming they're their own.

Exactly. It's not the business we have issues with, its how they operate and the domino effect that will have for other DZs and (selfishly) us.

The idea of this thread was to find a way to stop bitching about it and actually DO something about it. Dave posted who to contact at Skyride and Betsy was right about contacting the USPA. If we flood them with complaints, they will have to put it on the Agenda - but knowing how that works, that will take time and would have to wait until after the next election and we would have to write to the new members of the USPA as well.


(This post was edited by ChasingBlueSky on Oct 22, 2004, 9:40 AM)


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Oct 22, 2004, 9:41 AM
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     Re: [AggieDave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Negotiations with Skyride by the USPA would be an even better option, but I really don't see that happening until atleast after the elections this year.

I think it makes for an interesting platform...but that is better left in another forum.

Its fraud. Its theft. Its unethical. Its bad for skydiving.

For those that arent aware...do a search on skyride. There are several threads.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:43 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

So go for it. How about someone who really knows the in's and out's of the "scam" writes a stock letter to the USPA voicing concern and asking them to do something about it.

Make the letter available to everyone - maybe here as an attachment and invite people to print it out, sign it, stick their USPA number on it and mail it.

I may not live in the US but I'm a fully paid up USPA member - you'd have my signature.


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:43 AM
Post #24 of 2276 (98612 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Its fraud. Its theft. Its unethical. Its bad for skydiving.

BB, I agree with you 110% on that, definately they've gone well above and beyond what would be considered ethical and have broken some laws while doing that.

Its going to take a team of DZs working together or better yet the USPA to bring the legal issues to bear, simply due to the costs involved, though.

I just wanted to make a point about individual DZs accepting or not accepting the certificates and that how I don't feel like its the best solution at this point.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:46 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Another option would be to look at whatever national advertising ombudsmen you have in the US. I wouldn't have a clue to start looking for the US, nor am I aware of what rules businesses must abide by.

If Skyride were operating in the UK they would fall fowl of half a dozen or so laws prohibiting what they're doing and would be stomped on for doing so by one or two non governmental organiseations.

The evidence is there for everyone to see in the form of websites. A couple of letters to your advertising ombudsmen would get them looking into the matter.

Depending on what the US system is swift fines and a reprimand could follow together with Skyride being required to take the offending websites down.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Oct 22, 2004, 9:47 AM)


tombuch  (D 8514)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:48 AM
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

It’s a tough barnacle to scrape off.

The first objective should be to attack them legally for copyright and trademark violations, as well as fraudulent marketing claims. It sounds like we don’t have a critical mass of operators willing or financially capable of doing that. As an alternative, if each person or business that has been harmed documents the harm, and then contacts the Better Business Bureau in your area, as well as your state Attorney General, we may find a point of advocacy. I think the best option is to generate complaints to the Attorney General and define the business as a fraud operating across state lines. That might generate a formal action by the national organization of State Attorneys General. I don’t have a whole lot of experience with this approach, but there might be some opportunity there as a consumer protection, racketeering, or fraud prosecution.

The second option is to target their marketing partners. The web site for the National Skydiving Association, a fictional industry group listed here: http://skydivinginformation.com/ appears to include a list of all the participating drop zones. PilotDave has a post on this thread linking the NSA with 1800SKYRIDE. Check the list for your home DZ, and talk with the DZO about pulling out of the deal.

Unfortunately, students looking for skydiving training tend to select a business based on “the three P’s,” specifically Price Proximity, and Promotion. They generally do not do much research or evaluate claims beyond price. My book JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy was originally designed to provide information so prospective students could make reasoned purchasing decisions, but there seems to be little interest at the consumer level.


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Oct 22, 2004, 9:56 AM
Post #27 of 2276 (32055 views)
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     Re: [tombuch] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Skyride offers skydiving in the following location in Arizona, and has facticious websites for each.
In Arizona there are 5 legitimate skydiving operations:
Skydive Arizona, Desert Skydiving Buckeye, Skydive Coolidge, Skydive Cottonwood and Marana

Arizona
· Phoenix
· Tucson
· Mesa
· Glendale
· Scottsdale
· Chandler
· Tempe
· Gilbert
· Peoria
· Yuma
· Flagstaff

In Arizona there are 4 legitimate skydiving operations:
Skydive Arizona, Buckye, Skydive Coolidge, Skydive Cottonwood

So as you can see Skyride is growing arms and legs.

Tom points out some valid options.
As to the "deal" that Tom mentioned..there isnt one. Skydive Arizona has contacted skyride several times and has asked to be removed from all thier lists to no avail.


(This post was edited by bbarnhouse on Oct 22, 2004, 3:28 PM)


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:04 AM
Post #28 of 2276 (32055 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

There have ben a lot of good ideas to make this "thing" go away; however , you need something with some impact.

Three words, USPA Group Membership CODE OF ETHICS.

The guys that own Skyride also own Group Member DZ's in Georgia, Alabama and Penn.

Enact some type of policy and I would bet money these guys would be breaking it before the ink dries.

FYI Mike Mullins tried to pass a code of ethics motion for the Group Membership program, but it was not passed.

Chris Welker


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Oct 22, 2004, 10:11 AM
Post #29 of 2276 (32042 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

The also have soaringsports.com
and arizonaskydiving.com
tsk tsk


Hazarrd

Oct 22, 2004, 10:11 AM
Post #30 of 2276 (32040 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

go ahead and criticize this post as you please.

im not 100% aware of how skyride operates, but from my understanding they sell tandem jumps to consumers as a third party. in doing this they tack on a fee to the tandem price and that money goes right to them. their sole incentive is that tacked on cost.

so if thats right, they are going to do everything they can to advertise their service to the public and sell as many jumps as possible to turn a profit.

so the criticisms ive heard are that its not fair for them to tack on this price. but how about looking at the positive side of this. they are bringing people to the sport that maybe would have never thought about jumping. they field questions from potential jumpers without bothering the dz.

in my eyes, they are opening this sport up to more and more people that arent familiar with skydiving.

lastly, if dropzones are dealing with skyride then they are obviously doing something right. comments?


eeneR  (C 34303)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:19 AM
Post #31 of 2276 (31983 views)
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     Re: [Hazarrd] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
so if thats right, they are going to do everything they can to advertise their service to the public and sell as many jumps as possible to turn a profit
I think you missed the point...they are doing so by false advertising and copywrite infringement.

It wouldnt be a problem if they were doing this legitament, but they are not. They put info on DZ's saying they are apart of it when they are not, the pictures on the website are stolen, they list DZ's that dont even exist. That is the problem....


(This post was edited by eeneR on Oct 22, 2004, 10:19 AM)


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Oct 22, 2004, 10:19 AM
Post #32 of 2276 (31982 views)
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     Re: [Hazarrd] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
lastly, if dropzones are dealing with skyride then they are obviously doing something right. comments

May I suggest that you do a bit of research?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Oct 22, 2004, 10:20 AM
Post #33 of 2276 (31980 views)
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     Re: [Hazarrd] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
im not 100% aware of how skyride operates,

There's enough information in these forums to find out exactly how it operates. Go ahead and read the threads and you'll see everything from blatent lying, to copyright infringment to lying to customers about pricing, location, etc.

From your "understanding" of skyride I can see how you'd think it isn't a big deal, and the concept I believe is a good one (profit wise). Their implementation is where the issues arise legally and ethically. Research it and you'll see what we're talking about.

Blues,
Ian


Vallerina  (C License)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:20 AM
Post #34 of 2276 (31983 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I say that the dz.commers like me who have nothing better to do during the day call them and keep them on the phone for hours and send them lots of crap email.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Oct 22, 2004, 10:21 AM
Post #35 of 2276 (31979 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Beat me to the punch.

Damn pixies WinkWinkWink

Blues,
Ian


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:36 AM
Post #36 of 2276 (31889 views)
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     Re: [Vallerina] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Be careful, these guys play rough. Carey is some type of computer know it all, FYI.

Chris Welker


Vallerina  (C License)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:41 AM
Post #37 of 2276 (31881 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ooh! Ooh! I have a better idea! Tell your 50 closest friends to do their favorite crank call to that number! Smile


packerboy  (C 34282)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:42 AM
Post #38 of 2276 (31880 views)
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     Re: [Praetorian] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
as I understand it skyride isnt in the instruction biz .. yet).


They seem to think they are... they offer an AFF program on their website as well.


Ron

Oct 22, 2004, 10:49 AM
Post #39 of 2276 (31873 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If we flood them with complaints, they will have to put it on the Agenda - but knowing how that works, that will take time and would have to wait until after the next election and we would have to write to the new members of the USPA as well.

They will simply do nothing.

That company is bringing people into the sport. Those people might join the USPA.

The USPA is not about to get involved with legal issues such as these.

Plus the USPA has no real power over anything. The only thing they could do is ASK group member DZ's not to honor them.

But then that would push Tandems to non-USPA centers and you would find some centers getting upset about the USPA telling them not to take business.

The USPA will do nothing.

If they use your copyrighted material....Sue them.

If they have your DZ listed and you don't want to be...Sue them.


(This post was edited by Ron on Oct 22, 2004, 10:53 AM)


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:53 AM
Post #40 of 2276 (31867 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The USPA will do nothing.

Chris Needels seems to say other wise this month:
http://www.uspa.org/...utist/capcom1004.htm

Quote:
USPA has been following such practices and is working with its legal counsel to find ways to curtail such scams, but it will take more than a summons or threat of a suit to keep up with creative con artists. Members need to get involved. Information is power. The more the word spreads about bait-and-switch and other deceptive business practices by a few bad apples, the fewer potential skydivers will be turned away from our sport. And if we become victims ourselves, we need to let law-enforcement agencies and the local Better Business Bureau know.

Legitimate drop zones need to get involved, too. If a DZO gets a marketing offer that's just too good to be true, it probably isn't true. We all recognize that there is drop zone competition, particularly around many of our major metropolitan areas, but deceiving customers is not the way to prevail. A solid, properly executed business plan is. USPA drop zones will do the right thing.



(This post was edited by ChasingBlueSky on Oct 22, 2004, 10:54 AM)


Ron

Oct 22, 2004, 10:56 AM
Post #41 of 2276 (31768 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The USPA will do nothing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chris Needels seems to say other wise this month:
http://www.uspa.org/...utist/capcom1004.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


USPA has been following such practices and is working with its legal counsel to find ways to curtail such scams, but it will take more than a summons or threat of a suit to keep up with creative con artists. Members need to get involved. Information is power. The more the word spreads about bait-and-switch and other deceptive business practices by a few bad apples, the fewer potential skydivers will be turned away from our sport. And if we become victims ourselves, we need to let law-enforcement agencies and the local Better Business Bureau know.

Legitimate drop zones need to get involved, too. If a DZO gets a marketing offer that's just too good to be true, it probably isn't true. We all recognize that there is drop zone competition, particularly around many of our major metropolitan areas, but deceiving customers is not the way to prevail. A solid, properly executed business plan is. USPA drop zones will do the right thing.

Sounds like he is saying that they are looking into it...And having had issues "looked into " before...They do nothing.

He is saying what I said...Sue them. Call the BBB.

The USPA will do nothing.


(This post was edited by Ron on Oct 22, 2004, 11:00 AM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 11:48 AM
Post #42 of 2276 (31732 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Thanks for speaking for the "community".


bigway

Oct 22, 2004, 12:03 PM
Post #43 of 2276 (31713 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i am not from america so do not know of skyride.
Where is their marleting done? how do people hear about them?
Maybe all of us as a community could fund a massive advert campain next to their advertisments(yellow pages and such)
Not selling skydiving but just informing them what skydiving costs if they just turn up to a dz.
I do some marketing in new zealand and for all the places that bring or send us tandem customers we give 15% to the company. Now if a community formed from dropzone.com and took out advertisments next to this company we could work on a commision basis where instead of us taking a booking fee of 15% we would be advertising through next to skyride saying that if they book through us we will give it to them for 10% cheaper than if you turned up at a dropzone. For every customer we send we get a 15% commission, instead of 10% of that we give the customer a 10% dicount and with the 5% we put that into the fund to pay for our advertising. This would be a voluntary service we provide but it will make it cheaper for the customer that any other way and we also take all their bussiness from them so they will not be opening up dropzones.
We would be doing this for the good of commercial skydiving and giving the customers a fair way to enjoy what we all love.
I am sure any company that sends tandems will be working on a commission fee/booking fee.
What do you all think?


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 12:11 PM
Post #44 of 2276 (31701 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Google Ad Words and Yahoo ads are two of the biggest ways. Type in a big American city and then Skydive in google and you will get a few DZs, and on the side and top you will see the Google Skyride ads.


bigway

Oct 22, 2004, 12:18 PM
Post #45 of 2276 (31695 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

well lets all play them at their own game, get one of the moderators in on it, do a rally for for 100$ each and this will be start up costs. then the 5% commission from every customer will pay us all back and future advertising. Reackon their will be about 100 of us that would trust a modrator and a computer geek or maybe sangrio to start something up, we would all get our cash back in the returns and then their is interst in a bank account and we could be a company that works on a voluntary basis and we can fundraise at skydive meets and celebrate...the whoie skydive community would get behind this sort of thing."wipe out skyride'" get the pink mafia behind it and instead of advertising with planes get the girls advertising to come and jump with them. Far out there is so much we could do and beat their asses, we would just need someone that knows how to get listed on the web and another to manage the money another to run advertising, a call center to some of our mobiles while we are at office jobs and our dedication and knowledge of the sport we all love.
I am in. I just have ideas though and no knowledge of the above, but i do know how to get people to come skydiving.


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 12:21 PM
Post #46 of 2276 (31692 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Thanks for speaking for the "community".

Just following Needels lead this month.


bigway

Oct 22, 2004, 12:25 PM
Post #47 of 2276 (31681 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i just noticed skyride offer a tandem to experience freefall for up to 75 seconds and a paracute ride for uo 9 minutes.
i gather you have to deploy main at 5000ft, this is 5 minutes parachute decent, and 75 second freefall would be from 17000ft. I never knew tandems went that high in the states. We take em to 16000ft on occassion in new zealand.


MakeItHappen

Oct 22, 2004, 12:56 PM
Post #48 of 2276 (31655 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Thanks for speaking for the "community".

Hey JP ----
Can you tell us how many of your tandem passengers, er-- I mean students, and how many of the tandems you may photograph come to Perris via a SkyRide certificate per month??? - on average or peak and valley will suffice.

If you also state how much you get paid per student and as a photographer, then the rest of us can do the arithmetic to figure the vested interest.

.


(This post was edited by MakeItHappen on Oct 22, 2004, 12:59 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 12:58 PM
Post #49 of 2276 (31653 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I don't know. I'm not in the *know*. Asking the school might help, I'm just a contractor who gets assigned students.


MakeItHappen

Oct 22, 2004, 1:13 PM
Post #50 of 2276 (31635 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't know. I'm not in the *know*.

Well then - why did you say Thanks for speaking for the "community".???

In reply to:
Asking the school might help, I'm just a contractor who gets assigned students.

Last summer Perris staff told me they got 30-40 tandems per month via SkyRide in the peak (summer) season. About how many of those would you have done as a TM or photographer?

Do you think claiming ignorance in this situation is a prudent response??

.


DontPanic  (D 30449)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:16 PM
Post #51 of 2276 (30531 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I was following through on the links pilotdave posted earlier in this thread, and I came across this gem in one of their FAQs at:

http://www.skydivems.com/...iving_questions.html

Quote:
How do you breath in freefall?
One CAN breathe in freefall - if it were necessary. However, due to the high speed of terminal freefall and vertical freefall dives, the jumper's body is exposed to O2 molecules at a much higher rate than someone walking around on the ground. The body is able to absorb the necessary O2 through the skin. This is why jumpers flap their cheeks in freefall, it presents a larger surface area to the airstream for oxygen osmosis. Once under canopy, the jumper resumes breathing normally. This is also why jumpers do not jump on cloudy days or when they might risk going through clouds. The moisture in the clouds can condense on their exposed skin surfaces preventing the absorption of the necessary oxygen.


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:24 PM
Post #52 of 2276 (30522 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Last summer Perris staff told me they got 30-40 tandems per month via SkyRide in the peak (summer) season.

Since you have done more research on this than most - do you feel those 30 tandems a month are enough to keep DZs in the practice of using this service?


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:25 PM
Post #53 of 2276 (30523 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Because I am part of this *community* and I do no't wish to be part of a quasi legal witch hunt.

Ignorance in not what I'm pleading, instead, I would suggest it's not my place to provide information about PVSS and the business they may or may not do with SkyRide.

As I've said in PM, I don't suport an attack on someone who is trying to run a business simply because people don't like the the fact that they are doing well. To those he has stolen photos, websites, or harmed in other illegal manners, I suggest they file claim agains him. Small claims court is not expensive.

Illegal sabatoge is just plain wrong.

Please note I ma not a suporter of this man or his company, nor do I even like him. I don't like some of the business tactics he's used either, but baring the claimed theft of images I have not seen any illegal activities being performed.

Before someone throws up the students going to a DZ with a certificate and it not being accepted, I'll point out that students have been showing up to the wrong DZ since Jesus was on static line. We had a woman come out for a tandem with her daughters 2 weeks ago that called 1-800Skydive from Northern California, but showed up at Perris. Now where do you think she was booked, and who's responsible for that?


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:34 PM
Post #54 of 2276 (30504 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
That company is bringing people into the sport. Those people might join the USPA.

Here's the problem.

Skyride DOES NOT increase the number of potential jumpers thropugh their marketing.

Are they exploring new mediums? NO

Are they expanding the demographic? NO

Are they doing anything in anyway to increase the number on people doing FJC and Tandems NO

Are they doing anything that could potentially put a bad taste into a newbies mouth? YES

Are they capatalizing on other legit DZs marketing? YES

All skyride is doing is directing a percentage of web traffic that would normally find a legit DZ and making themselves middlemen. A potential jumper that finds their site would have found a real DZ if they weren't there. How is that increasing numbers?
What they do is parasitic in nature!
Ah crap, I'm losing it againMad

Quote:
If they have your DZ listed and you don't want to be...Sue them.

They claim to BE our dropzone and they have me in the meta tags as cheif instructor. 2 months ago the f***ers even called me to see if I wanted to be apart of their group! Of all the balls!Mad

Quote:
If they use your copyrighted material....Sue them.

Not that simple. You have to sue them in Atlanta. Cost vs. return, that's a lot of money and hassle to prove your right.
(FYI we are trying to persue it now that our season is over)

I'll shut up now, this issue is really stressful to me.
...happy thoughts ... happy thoughts ... where's my stress ball?




(This post was edited by teason on Oct 22, 2004, 1:44 PM)


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:44 PM
Post #55 of 2276 (30497 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Last summer Perris staff told me they got 30-40 tandems per month via SkyRide in the peak (summer) season.

How many of those would Perris have done if Skyride wasn't there and wasn't skimming a percentage of the profit? Probably most!

If they were doing a lot of leg work, persuing new marketing mediums or maybe providing customer service for a small DZ who has difficulty answering his phones, then the percentage would be a justified fee for service. Those 30-40 would be on top of the regular numbers.

They are instead competing with their own member DZ for web traffic the DZ would get anyway.

I'll say it again, they are parasitc! They feed off the flow of student traffic!




teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 1:53 PM
Post #56 of 2276 (30485 views)
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     Re: [DontPanic] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

We put that on our website as a joke, what a coincidence eh?

ourshttp://www.339jump.com/faq.html




pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 2:46 PM
Post #57 of 2276 (30446 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Now you have me all confused. Is your dropzone related to Skyride too? You seem to have the same logo as ASC. And I'm talking about "Adventure Skydiving Connecticut," a fictional skyride-related DZ: http://www.skydiveconnecticut.com/

Dave


MakeItHappen

Oct 22, 2004, 2:54 PM
Post #58 of 2276 (30445 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Because I am part of this *community* and I do no't wish to be part of a quasi legal witch hunt.

Ignorance in not what I'm pleading, instead, I would suggest it's not my place to provide information about PVSS and the business they may or may not do with SkyRide.

I am part of the community too. And I have put in HUNDREDS of hours on the SkyRide issue. I have actively sought out comments from DZOs that support and do not support SkyRide. I personally invited (via another BOD member that was on the 'right side of the tables') Melanie Conatser to the GM Comm. meeting at the last USPA BOD mtg to get her views. She attended the mtg and was informed about USPA activities that she was not aware of, such as letters to ASC/SkyRide. I am not on the GM Comm., but Jess ensures that I can attend the pertinent parts of the mtg that deal with SkyRide. USPA is not on a quasi-legal witch-hunt.

Melanie's answer as to why they accepted SkyRide certificates was because she believed they were getting business that they would not otherwise get. Legitimate DZOs should band together to grab google and overture ad words to promote their DZs. This is a job for DZOS, not USPA. A collective DZO organization can create more business than a sole vested entity in Atlanta can. If there was ever a motivation for DZOS to band together, SkyRide has provided it and SkyRide has demonstrated the techniques that work. Heck, I'd even say I know enough about how the internet ad words work to say I could slam dunk SkyRide in lieu of real DZs. What is missing is the collaborative effort among DZs. It won't be until DZs start cooperating on an international level that we can put this puppy to rest.

In reply to:
As I've said in PM, I don't suport an attack on someone who is trying to run a business simply because people don't like the the fact that they are doing well. To those he has stolen photos, websites, or harmed in other illegal manners, I suggest they file claim agains him. Small claims court is not expensive.

JP, you and others must come to grips with reality of the situation. There have been numerous documented instances of copyright violations. In order for cases to proceed, they must be filed in Atlanta, GA. In real life, Tim Eason of Canada and Paul Osbourne of Australia are not going to file suit from thousands of miles away. It just is not cost effective. US jumpers, who have photos used inappropriately, like Brent Finley's, also have a monetary obstacle to overcome. It is not until these groups of individuals and corporations band together that they will have an economic incentive to pursue legal action against SkyRide. USPA cannot be this agent for these copyright violations. The agent must be an appointed representative by the people and entities that have had material stolen or abused by SkyRide.

In reply to:
Illegal sabotage is just plain wrong.

Please note I ma not a suporter of this man or his company, nor do I even like him. I don't like some of the business tactics he's used either, but baring the claimed theft of images I have not seen any illegal activities being performed.

Go look at LASkydiving.com - staff
That is the small version of this Brent Finley pic
The people in this picture are:
Back row:Ted Wagner, Mike Netzel, Kiwi Steve Woods, Julie Sessing, Mick Nutnall, Derek Thomas, Tyre Wilde, Tim Monsees, Mike (CANADA) ??, Nick Furchner
2nd Row:Ellen Thistle, Janie Jicha, Mary Traub, Beckie Thompson, Deb Henry, Ellen Monsees, Jan Meyer
1st row: John Coffman, George Jicha, Jack Farrell
This photo is also used on TN
I dare you or anyone to contact any of the above named jumpers and get a real reason that their photo is being used on two web sites that portray themselves as 'legitimate' dzs. The people in the photo have never been staff at LASkydiving or Skydive TN.
This is only one example of SkyRide's misuse of skydiving images.

Skydive Arizona's fleet photos are used on a number of SkyRide's sites.

TK Hayes' student manual has been knocked off.

In reply to:
Before someone throws up the students going to a DZ with a certificate and it not being accepted, I'll point out that students have been showing up to the wrong DZ since Jesus was on static line. We had a woman come out for a tandem with her daughters 2 weeks ago that called 1-800Skydive from Northern California, but showed up at Perris. Now where do you think she was booked, and who's responsible for that?

People do sometimes show up at the wrong dz. That is not what people are complaining about.
Jim Wallace told me of a customer that got a SkyRide Certificate via SkyRide. The customer specifically asked for 'Jim Wallace Skydiving School'. SkyRide said the certificate was good there. The guy shows up at Jim's school. Jim said he did not accept the certificates, but Perris' school did. The guy did a tandem jump, but part of his first jump experience is how he was 'duped'. That (the being duped part), in my book, is not good for skydiving.
.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 3:02 PM
Post #59 of 2276 (30434 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

My brother is a lawyer so i just asked him about this... Obviously he doesn't have all the facts, but he said what they do is probably illegal.

He suggested going to the police and the Better Business Bureau. You tried either of those? If they're doing something illegal (as opposed to just immoral), the police could investigate.

Dave


MakeItHappen

Oct 22, 2004, 3:04 PM
Post #60 of 2276 (30432 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Now you have me all confused. Is your dropzone related to Skyride too? You seem to have the same logo as ASC. And I'm talking about "Adventure Skydiving Connecticut," a fictional skyride-related DZ: http://www.skydiveconnecticut.com/

Dave

Tim Easton's DZ is the original Skydiving Adventures DZ.
Skyride knocks off so many domain names it is hard to keep up with them.
Here is a list of Adventure Skydiving knock-offs, but it does not have http://www.skydiveconnecticut.com/ in it.

Is your dropzone related to Skyride too? You seem to have the same logo as ASC.
This is a statement of the problem.

.


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #61 of 2276 (30397 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I am part of the community too. And I have put in HUNDREDS of hours on the SkyRide issue.

My original involvment in this thread can be attributed to the word "we" in the thread title. Got a mouse in your pocket? No? Then who's we?

Quote:
Melanie's answer as to why they accepted SkyRide certificates was because she believed they were getting business that they would not otherwise get.

And I don't think anyone has offered proof that she's wrong. Melanie has to do what she can to keep the playground called Perris in the black. I think she (and the rest of the family/team at Perris) are doing a good job at it.

Quote:
There have been numerous documented instances of copyright violations. In order for cases to proceed, they must be filed in Atlanta, GA.

Never disputed that. Reality is the way things are. Simply because someone has a copyright doesn't mean they are absolved of the struggle to defend it. I know that all too well, as I've had photos of mine used without permision. It sucks. But untill the laws are changed we must paly withing the rules laid out.

If people see the expence of defending their rights as too high, maybe a network of people can be put together to help. Any sympathetic souls in or near GA who can facilitate the bringing of Small Claims Suits? I guarentee that being hit with 10 or 15 succesive suits will be more damaging to this man's livelyhood than "google clicks" or other sabatouge efforts I've heard about.

Quote:
Heck, I'd even say I know enough about how the internet ad words work to say I could slam dunk SkyRide in lieu of real DZs.

Lookie there. Another answer. Do it bigger and better than him, that's the "American Way"Put him out of business the way Wal-Mart is doing to businesses all over the country. Do it bigger, better, faster, and cheaper. That I can support.

Quote:
Jim Wallace told me of a customer that got a SkyRide Certificate via SkyRide. The customer specifically asked for 'Jim Wallace Skydiving School'. SkyRide said the certificate was good there. The guy shows up at Jim's school. Jim said he did not accept the certificates, but Perris' school did. The guy did a tandem jump, but part of his first jump experience is how he was 'duped'. That (the being duped part), in my book, is not good for skydiving.

And I counter with the students that show up almost weekly and say "they never told me you need shoes" or "no one said you have to weigh less than 230lbs". People are not always honest, and will do whatever it takes ITO to get what they want. Wuffos don't understand there are different businesses on a DZ, or different DZ's, or heck even why they can't make their jump today because it's "a little breezy" (30+ mph winds) I've heard some of the stories and I don't put alot of faith in them. They would be out of business quickly if they were not furfilling their customer obligations on a regular basis.

Quote:
Skydive Arizona's fleet photos are used on a number of SkyRide's sites.

Without going into the specifics of who took said photos, SDAZ's planes atten LOTS of events and opperate at many DZ's every year. It's concevable someone who bought a SkyRide ticket might end up jumping from one of them. How many other DZ's have pictures of leased A/C on their websites?

People have been throwing a fit because Skyride has "bogus" website names. So do "real" DZ's. Is Skydive San Francisco in San Francisco? Nope. Is Skydive Southern California the only one in SoCal? Nope, not even the biggest. Since Al Gore invented the internetTongue people have been buying, selling and using web addresses to position themselves better. No difference.

People have been having a fit because Skyride directs customers past other closer DZ in favor of their participating DZ's. So what, 1800Skydive has been doing this for years. DZ recruiting has been doing this for years. Billboards have been doing this for years. Phone book adds have been doing this for years. Not fair you say? Life rarely is.

Again, I'll repeat, I'm not a fan of the copyright infringments, but the answer is there. Legal action.

Too mush of the crap being spouted about Skyride seems to stem from a jealosy that it's successful.

I'mm all for someone replacing it, but are DZO's gonna? No. It brings in ALOT of buisness. As much as 3 to 4 times what was quoted here previously.


MakeItHappen

Oct 22, 2004, 5:41 PM
Post #62 of 2276 (30367 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
There have been numerous documented instances of copyright violations. In order for cases to proceed, they must be filed in Atlanta, GA.

Quote:
Never disputed that. Reality is the way things are. Simply because someone has a copyright doesn't mean they are absolved of the struggle to defend it. I know that all too well, as I've had photos of mine used without permision. It sucks. But untill the laws are changed we must paly withing the rules laid out.

If people see the expence of defending their rights as too high, maybe a network of people can be put together to help. Any sympathetic souls in or near GA who can facilitate the bringing of Small Claims Suits? I guarentee that being hit with 10 or 15 succesive suits will be more damaging to this man's livelyhood than "google clicks" or other sabatouge efforts I've heard about.

At least we agree on something.

In reply to:
Quote:
Heck, I'd even say I know enough about how the internet ad words work to say I could slam dunk SkyRide in lieu of real DZs.

Lookie there. Another answer. Do it bigger and better than him, that's the "American Way"Put him out of business the way Wal-Mart is doing to businesses all over the country. Do it bigger, better, faster, and cheaper. That I can support.

This is the crux of the matter. Many DZOS have the belief that SkyRide has taken all the top slots in keywords. Collectively, DZOS can take this lead back.

In reply to:
Quote:
And I counter with the students that show up almost weekly and say "they never told me you need shoes" or "no one said you have to weigh less than 230lbs". People are not always honest, and will do whatever it takes ITO to get what they want. Wuffos don't understand there are different businesses on a DZ, or different DZ's, or heck even why they can't make their jump today because it's "a little breezy" (30+ mph winds) I've heard some of the stories and I don't put alot of faith in them. They would be out of business quickly if they were not furfilling their customer obligations on a regular basis.

We are not talking about the generalized whuffo replies.


In reply to:
Quote:
Skydive Arizona's fleet photos are used on a number of SkyRide's sites.

In reply to:
Without going into the specifics of who took said photos, SDAZ's planes atten LOTS of events and opperate at many DZ's every year. It's concevable someone who bought a SkyRide ticket might end up jumping from one of them. How many other DZ's have pictures of leased A/C on their websites?

People have been throwing a fit because Skyride has "bogus" website names. So do "real" DZ's. Is Skydive San Francisco in San Francisco? Nope. Is Skydive Southern California the only one in SoCal? Nope, not even the biggest. Since Al Gore invented the internetTongue people have been buying, selling and using web addresses to position themselves better. No difference.

People are not throwing a fit because they claim to be Skydive Arizona and the dz is in Eloy. People complain about SkydiveDetroit.com or SkydiveSacramento.com web sites representing themselves as brick and mortar DZs in the area and then sending customers to DZs hundreds of miles away. Sort of like the customer, perhaps from SkydiveSacramento.com, being sent to Perris????

In reply to:
People have been having a fit because Skyride directs customers past other closer DZ in favor of their participating DZ's. So what, 1800Skydive has been doing this for years. DZ recruiting has been doing this for years. Billboards have been doing this for years. Phone book adds have been doing this for years. Not fair you say? Life rarely is.

Again, I'll repeat, I'm not a fan of the copyright infringments, but the answer is there. Legal action.

Too mush of the crap being spouted about Skyride seems to stem from a jealosy that it's successful.

Man, that is it!! I'm jealous of the DZs making money. My motive has surfaced?!?!?!

Actually, I think some of the marketing techniques used by SkyRide can greatly benefit skydiving. I would hate to think that all DZS would stoop to the 'hidden charges' technique.

In reply to:
I'mm all for someone replacing it, but are DZO's gonna? No. It brings in ALOT of buisness. As much as 3 to 4 times what was quoted here previously.

Ok, JP….I'm at quite a stand off point here. Earlier, you said you did not know what the dz was doing. Now you are saying my estimate is off by 3 or 4 times???
Correct me if I am incorrect, but I believe only my posts made mention of the amount of business that SkyRide brought to a DZ.


(This post was edited by MakeItHappen on Oct 22, 2004, 5:49 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 6:36 PM
Post #63 of 2276 (30345 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
perhaps from SkydiveSacramento.com, being sent to Perris

Davis.

Quote:
Ok, JP….I'm at quite a stand off point here. Earlier, you said you did not know what the dz was doing. Now you are saying my estimate is off by 3 or 4 times???

It was 1/2 way a cop out. It's really not my place to discuss what business PVSS or any other DZ is doing.

My estimate is just that, an informed "guestimate".


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 7:16 PM
Post #64 of 2276 (30330 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I can't believe you're defending them. I'm not a fan of 1800skydive either, but at least they only pretend that some dropzones DON'T exist, not that non existant dropzones do exist.

Comparing a DZ showing leased planes on their website with what skyride does? Not even showing a picture of a CASA during a boogie or something, but showing a type of plane that has never been used at any DZ in the area (and indicating that it is used at a fictional DZ). Going back to the Adventure Skydiving Connecticut example. CT has 2 dropzones. I don't think either one is at an airport that could support a king air, yet they show a king air on the page. How is that similar to Connecticut Parachutists showing pictures of their full time leased Super Otter?

You seem to be ok with them because they bring tandems to Perris. What if they sent all those tandems to Elsinore? Or what if they were sending all those tandems to a 182 DZ 100 miles away? Now that's the same thing that 1800 skydive might do, which is why i don't like them either. But they're at least a legitimate business. (But I'd shut em both down if I was god).

They are obviously scum trying to get a piece of the pie that doesn't need to exist. At best they're a useless middleman. 1800skydive at least sort of promotes the sport.

Now if they opened a bunch of tandem-only DZs with all the names they use somewhat near the cities they are named for, then fine, that's a business. But right now, they're just fraud artists.

Dave


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 7:36 PM
Post #65 of 2276 (30321 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I can't believe you're defending them.

I'm not, and if you could put your knee jerk emotions aside you'd see that, and you'd see clear ways to stop them.

Unimpressed


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:14 PM
Post #66 of 2276 (30313 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Well when you suggested suing I thought I was imagining things. Skydivers don't sue skydivers, right?. Tongue

But anyway I reread what you wrote and it still sounds like you're defending them. Unless you were being sarcastic.

The problem with suing them is that you have to have been directly hurt by them. I wasn't, but they very well may have been taking business from my DZ through fraud. But maybe they were giving more business to my DZ. Can't sue for that. And hell, if another dropzone hired the law firm my brother works for, they'd probably sue my dropzone for benefiting from the fraud. Smile I'd like to see a group of DZs file a class action lawsuit or whatever the best way to do it would be.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 22, 2004, 8:17 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:26 PM
Post #67 of 2276 (30305 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
The problem with suing them is that you have to have been directly hurt by them.

Yep.

Quote:
But maybe they were giving more business to my DZ. Can't sue for that.

Yep. Heck I can pay my rent and afford a little Top Ramen because of some of the buisness they've thrown my way (indirectly).

Quote:
I'd like to see a group of DZs file a class action lawsuit or whatever the best way to do it would be.

On what grounds? That's my biggest beef. This whole battle agains skyride seems to have no real grounds, it just smells of a witch hunt. Those hurt by them have legal recourse, but there are alot of people screaming "bloody murder:, and talking about crank calls, fradulent bookings, and website/listing tampering. What good does it do to stoop to the level you accuse someone of?

Quote:
Skydivers don't sue skydivers, right?.

Yep. I wouldn't sue a skydiver for the outcome of a skydive, or for something I had signed a waver of my rights to sue about.

I would sue if someone had wrongfully stolen something I had protective interests in. BIG difference in my book.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 8:57 PM
Post #68 of 2276 (30293 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
On what grounds?

Fraud. I'm not a lawyer. I don't KNOW that fraud could be proven. But in my mind, what they are doing is clearly fraud in the moral sense. They are lying. Clearly. Now maybe it's a criminal offense. In that case, forget a lawsuit. A DA should prosecute them in criminal court. Nobody needs to prove they were hurt (as far as I know).

Ok why haven't any lawyers chimed in on this thread yet??

Dave


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 9:46 PM
Post #69 of 2276 (30284 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Now you have me all confused. Is your dropzone related to Skyride too? You seem to have the same logo as ASC. And I'm talking about "Adventure Skydiving Connecticut," a fictional skyride-related DZ:

They stole our website.

The copied cut and pasted the whole friggin' thing.

They violated copyright laws yadda yadda yadda.

WE ARE NOT AFFILIATED WITH THEM. They are theives who stole our site outright. They are using the logo we designed without our permission.




(This post was edited by teason on Oct 22, 2004, 9:47 PM)


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:00 PM
Post #70 of 2276 (30278 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Too mush of the crap being spouted about Skyride seems to stem from a jealosy that it's successful.

I spend money, time and effort promoting Adventure Skydiving on campus' and radio stations in North Dakota and then they find http://www.northdakotaskydiving.com/ on the net!?!

oh yeah, I must be jealous of the hard work they put into copying my website and logo and putting down THEIR number.

It's the ethics that has us bent, not how much they make of it. And for me it's the outright theft that pisses me off and effects me finacially!




teason  (D 18902)

Oct 22, 2004, 10:04 PM
Post #71 of 2276 (30287 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
On what grounds? That's my biggest beef. This whole battle agains skyride seems to have no real grounds, it just smells of a witch hunt.

.... how many times can I post the same thing over and over and over.




diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 22, 2004, 11:01 PM
Post #72 of 2276 (30276 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
They are theives who stole our site outright.

That's bad. Have you taken legal action?


slug  (B License)

Oct 23, 2004, 10:51 AM
Post #73 of 2276 (30231 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
They are theives who stole our site outright.

That's bad. Have you taken legal action?

Hi JP

You keep on asking "Have you taken Legal action" SmileThat isn't a option due to the attorny fee's and you know itCrazy.

So lets cut to the chase, Yes you know skyride is doing the nasty, and your willing to continue to personally benifit from their actions. Shocked

R.I.P.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 23, 2004, 12:04 PM
Post #74 of 2276 (30214 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I called them to see if they claimed Skydive Greene County(Xenia, Ohio), AerOhio (near Akron), or Skydive Wayne County (Richmond, IN) as one of their locations. They only claimed Richmond to be on their participating list. I informed them that SWC stopped accepting their certificates a couple months ago (straight from Jamie).

They are guilty of not being up to date on participating centers, but I really expected them to say that the others were included when I knew it was not true.

At the end of the call the guy kept asking me if I wanted a brochure. Even after I finally admitted that I was calling just to "see how much of a parasite on the skydiving industry they were". I thought he would hang up on me for being so rude/blunt saying that I "just wanted to waste his time" I guess he probably gets paid by the number of brochures he sends out.


bigway

Oct 23, 2004, 12:17 PM
Post #75 of 2276 (30210 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

when this company sells vouchers to their customers do they go over all the things like asking about age, and heart or back problems?
you would think if they did not and they sold them to any old person that they would be somewhat liable for selling a tandem skydive to someone who a dropzone would not accept. This would be some sort of intent to harm?
So what i am trying to say is that the dropzone can not sell skydives to a customer that will be at risk,
so if skyride sold a skydive voucher( same as selling a skydive) to a person that is not medicaly able to jump....could you not have them closed down for some sort of malfunction or endangering people or some sort of intent?
this should be researched, because this would be irresponsible of any bussiness to sell this product to someone that is not fit to jump.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 23, 2004, 12:22 PM
Post #76 of 2276 (29689 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

You've got a point, but people can lie about their weight or whatever when making arrangements through Skyride or directly with the DZ. As long as Skyride gives their money back if they, for instance, didn't make sure of the 'pre-requisites', then there seems to be no harm except to the potential students free time. If a DZ does accept their certificates, then they have the burden to be sure of Skyride's ability to adequately screen customers.

They sure are good at having their websites come up at the top of the list, when you do a whuffo type of web search.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Oct 23, 2004, 12:23 PM)


justaflygirl  (B License)

Oct 23, 2004, 12:32 PM
Post #77 of 2276 (29686 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

This is Zhills response to skyride, pretty clever I think! http://www.1800888jump.com

notice the simalarities...however we all know that Zhills is FOR REAL and a kickin place to be!Wink


(This post was edited by justaflygirl on Oct 23, 2004, 12:33 PM)


Vallerina  (C License)

Oct 23, 2004, 12:41 PM
Post #78 of 2276 (29681 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I like how they told me that the only place I can jump at in Chicago won't be open until October 31st! Crazy


bigway

Oct 23, 2004, 1:08 PM
Post #79 of 2276 (29672 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

yeah but surely they can not sell a skydive to anyone? if the dropzone can not neither should they, this would make a great argument in court. It would be classed as an unsafe practise?
ring them up and ask to buy one, record the phone call, without them asking let them know that you have had a fractured back in your past but would still like to jump. they will want to make the sale. When you are about to pay for it if they say it is ok then tell ask them if you HAVE to check with a doctor first? if they say it will be alright then the uspa would have to step in if they are selling jumps at uspa dropzones. This would close them down. i am not in the states, but would it hurt trying?
it could really catch these people out, ecpecially if they are a call center with students working on commission. In your country everyone sues, this would be a guarantee closure if it went this way.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 23, 2004, 1:24 PM
Post #80 of 2276 (29668 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
yeah but surely they can not sell a skydive to anyone? if the dropzone can not neither should they, this would make a great argument in court. It would be classed as an unsafe practise?
ring them up and ask to buy one, record the phone call, without them asking let them know that you have had a fractured back in your past but would still like to jump. they will want to make the sale. When you are about to pay for it if they say it is ok then tell ask them if you HAVE to check with a doctor first? if they say it will be alright then the uspa would have to step in if they are selling jumps at uspa dropzones. This would close them down. i am not in the states, but would it hurt trying?
it could really catch these people out, ecpecially if they are a call center with students working on commission. In your country everyone sues, this would be a guarantee closure if it went this way.

Your scenario would not likely happen because DZs will still ask the same questions whether customers come from Skyride or not. And they still have to sign the same waivers.

We don't all sue! But it is possible to go from being a sleezy malpractice lawyer preying on 'bad outcomes' to first term senator to having a good chance of being Vice Pres of the US. But of course Edwards was fighting for the 'little guy'. Land of opportunity!

Back on topic, I was surprised they did not claim to be affiliated with local DZs that I knew did not accept their certificates.


bigway

Oct 23, 2004, 1:29 PM
Post #81 of 2276 (29665 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

never meant to insult you with the suing thing, i worded it wrong. it is very hard to sue in new zealand, what i meant was alot of people sue in the states.
sorry.
I realise that the dz will go over a waiver with you first but if skyride is giving false unsafe information surely this will concern the uspa in a way that they can tell their members not to have anything to do with skyride and could enforce this. you do not need to close them down but you need to get the uspa to find reason not to let their members deal with this company. i am sure skyride will be reading this now so what i am saying would never work, but someone get crafty and rip them to pieces


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 23, 2004, 1:36 PM
Post #82 of 2276 (29663 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
never meant to insult you with the suing thing,

No offense taken, really Smile

In reply to:
what i meant was alot of people sue in the states.

You are correct, which is why I wasn't offended. What does offend me is how the opposition party here opposes any effort at tort reform, pretending to protect the little guy's right to justice.

If there is to be a fight against Skyride, it should be on the grounds of fraud/lying about the DZs they are affiliated.


sng2k  (Student)

Oct 23, 2004, 9:36 PM
Post #83 of 2276 (29619 views)
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     Re: [sundevil777] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

What is funny is at the Alabama DZ, which I believe ASC, in Cedartown, GA owns, I've seen at least three people in the last two weeks get totally pissed because they used skyride and learned that they BOUGHT the certificate from Georgia, but in AL, you have to be 19 instead of 18 to jump so they had to go to GA to jump, which I don't believe they were told at the time of purchase. I've seen several other cases that are similar to this! They have PLENTY of pissed off customers, one of which I believe may file some sort of law suit. :) Why would someone use skyride anyway? Why not contact the DZ directly and possibly save yourself some money? Maybe you could find enough disgruntled customers and file a class action lawsuit? Who knows...


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 23, 2004, 9:46 PM
Post #84 of 2276 (29616 views)
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     Re: [sng2k] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Why would someone use skyride anyway? Why not contact the DZ directly and possibly save yourself some money?

Because customers don't know any better. I did some ordinary searches and their websites come up at the top of the list, and highlited. Most Students don't know any reason to call the DZ, the skyride people make the arrangements as if they are partners Crazy


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Oct 23, 2004, 9:48 PM)


WFFC  (D 24610)

Oct 24, 2004, 12:48 AM
Post #85 of 2276 (29600 views)
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     Re: [sng2k] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
...but in AL, you have to be 19 instead of 18 to jump so they had to go to GA to jump, which I don't believe they were told at the time of purchase...

Really? I thought the age of majority for all states was 18.


firstime  (B 28972)

Oct 24, 2004, 10:53 AM
Post #86 of 2276 (29556 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I called the 800# about a month ago to inquire about sky diving on Long Island and was told that
there isnt any on LI because it's too windy. That
answer was a product of sour apples because SDLI
is not an affiliate. The person on the phone hung up
when I gave them an earful. Our DZ and others have
been putting a "CONSUMER ALERT" on their websites


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 11:29 AM
Post #87 of 2276 (29544 views)
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     Re: [firstime] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Our DZ and others have
been putting a "CONSUMER ALERT" on their websites

Quote:

I'm no Internet guru, or anything close...Angelic



But surely there must be a way to post something,
SOMEWHERE... with a title like~

"Skydive Skyride is a Scam" Tongue

and have it come up in the course of a google search?!

Anyone..anyone... Beuller?


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 24, 2004, 11:36 AM)


bigway

Oct 24, 2004, 11:33 AM
Post #88 of 2276 (29542 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

But surely there must be a way to post something,
SOMEWHERE... with a title like~

"Skydive Skyride is a Scam"

and have it come up in the course of a google search?!
In reply to:





come on dzers, one of you guys has to be ahacker.
close em downLaugh


JDBoston  (D 26450)

Oct 24, 2004, 12:49 PM
Post #89 of 2276 (29529 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

There are such ways.

There are also such things as DOS attacks against web servers hosting Skyride sites, etc.

Come on, I know we have some geeks out there!!!!

Joe


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 1:38 PM
Post #90 of 2276 (29521 views)
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     Re: [JDBoston] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I don't think there's a need to stoop to their level.

Dave


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 2:47 PM
Post #91 of 2276 (29509 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't think there's a need to stoop to their level.

Dave

Hacking and DOS attacks are illegal and immoral. I agree - going to that level is wrong. However, putting up a site warning people about Skyride is fine. But in the long rung that won't have an effect.

Here is an idea - a fund put together so those DZs that have suffered a lose, etc. Once they have the money for the lawyers, court fees, etc, then they can produce results.


Hazarrd

Oct 24, 2004, 4:28 PM
Post #92 of 2276 (29485 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

apprently i can get a 90 second freefall and 9-10 minute canopy ride down by doing a tandem. i wish i could get that kind of freefall time on my fun jumps!


WFFC  (D 24610)

Oct 24, 2004, 7:10 PM
Post #93 of 2276 (29448 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Here is an idea - a fund put together so those DZs that have suffered a lose, etc. Once they have the money for the lawyers, court fees, etc, then they can produce results.

This is already in the works...


loughery  (B 5150)

Oct 24, 2004, 8:45 PM
Post #94 of 2276 (29418 views)
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

If I were a DZO and accepted one of their ceritficates, that was bought for $169 how much money does skyride pay me for accepting said certificate?


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 11:18 PM
Post #95 of 2276 (29399 views)
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     Re: [slug] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
So lets cut to the chase, Yes you know skyride is doing the nasty, and your willing to continue to personally benifit from their actions.

That's bullshit. It's a pathertic attack.

I have pointed out I don't approve of some of their actions and am urging people who have been slighted to use their legal recourse.

Quote:
You keep on asking "Have you taken Legal action" That isn't a option due to the attorny fee's and you know it.

I don't know anything of the sort.

In the past I have won a $4700 judgement for wrongfuly removed/destroyed property in Small claims court. Total filing costs were $58.

I have also recieved a "cease and desist" court order against someone who was using copywrited material of mine without permision. Guess what? When presented with it they stoped using said material. Total fees involves, $17.

Crying that it costs too much to defend what you claim to be yours is a bullshit cop out. It can be done if you're determined.

Put up or BTFU.


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 11:23 PM
Post #96 of 2276 (29397 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
However, putting up a site warning people about Skyride is fine.

It's probably illegal. Heard of slander? Do this the right way. Force them to address the wrongs. Enough of the wronged attack them in the LEGAL avenues they have avaliable, 1 of 2 things will happen. A) they will right the wrongs, B) they'll end up out of business from legal fees/proceedings.


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 24, 2004, 11:24 PM
Post #97 of 2276 (29397 views)
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     Re: [loughery] What can we do? [In reply to]  

IIRC $155 to $159 (from when the aproched my old home DZ.)


slug  (B License)

Oct 25, 2004, 1:29 AM
Post #98 of 2276 (29388 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
So lets cut to the chase, Yes you know skyride is doing the nasty, and your willing to continue to personally benifit from their actions.

That's bullshit. It's a pathertic attack.

I have pointed out I don't approve of some of their actions and am urging people who have been slighted to use their legal recourse.

Quote:
You keep on asking "Have you taken Legal action" That isn't a option due to the attorny fee's and you know it.

I don't know anything of the sort.

In the past I have won a $4700 judgement for wrongfuly removed/destroyed property in Small claims court. Total filing costs were $58.

I have also recieved a "cease and desist" court order against someone who was using copywrited material of mine without permision. Guess what? When presented with it they stoped using said material. Total fees involves, $17.

Crying that it costs too much to defend what you claim to be yours is a bullshit cop out. It can be done if you're determined.

Put up or BTFU.

I've taken one company to small claims court $1500 and won, also filed a cease and desist order against my neighbor. Both without lawyers and minimal cost but we only had to drive 15 miles one day to file the court papers,Unimpressed then another 15 milesanother day to meet the referee,Unimpressed then another 15 miles another day to meet the judge.Unimpressed

So your correct it can be done. Especially if both parties are localShocked.

The court isn't a collection agency so even when you win in court you still may have to do some work to collect.Unimpressed So we had to do spend two more days to collect the money the court award us.

How far did you have to travel to file tour court cases that you mentioned? Same city? Same County? Would you have filed against someone 2000 mi away?

I wouldn't unless I was Bill Gates or a record company.

Personnely your spin is getting oldShocked the reader's of DZ.com can read both opinions of your legal option double speak and make their own decision.

Have a nice day.

R.I.P.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 25, 2004, 5:04 AM
Post #99 of 2276 (29375 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
However, putting up a site warning people about Skyride is fine.

It's probably illegal. Heard of slander? Do this the right way. Force them to address the wrongs. Enough of the wronged attack them in the LEGAL avenues they have avaliable, 1 of 2 things will happen. A) they will right the wrongs, B) they'll end up out of business from legal fees/proceedings.

The truth is always a valid defense, DP. It's actually the best idea I've heard, far better than the posts bordering on conspiracy to commit a DoS attack. And if skyride wants to claim that it's slanderous to say he ripped out customers (opinion, btw), he can go to the expense and wait for the countersuit.

BTW, SkydiveSacramento sending people to Davis seems pretty reasonable. It's the closest DZ besides Lodi, and only a bit further. Of course, Lodi has no need for skyride with their pricing. Sending them to Perris would be a different story alltogether.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 25, 2004, 6:16 AM
Post #100 of 2276 (29344 views)
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     Re: [kelpdiver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
It's probably illegal. Heard of slander?


Quote:

I agree with Mr. Kelp...
it's not slander if you tell the truth.

In reply to:
Do this the right way.
Force them to address the wrongs.


Quote:
From what I read in this months Parachutist, that's what
the USPA is attempting to do.
But as we know they don't have the deepest
of pockets either.

I wonder if the BBB has been alerted...not that an
unsuspecting wuffo would call anyway.

I posted my idea wondering how to get a complaining,
yet factual statement of information posted on the
web so that it might come up when skydive..
or skyride would be 'searched'.

I don't know how the search engines are 'powered'
...what causes skyride to appear on top when I
google skydive?

Is it because of # of hits?
Because it's a stand alone website?

I've mentioned the name of a demo team in some
of my posts here at DZ.Com....
when I google the team name, those posts
appear as hits
...but toward the end of the 'search'

Would a 'Dedicated ..stand alone' webpage
addressing the skyride concerns come up
if worded properly?

Does anyone know?
...where's Ivan when ya need him!Tongue


DP...another way to get them to change their practices,
is to throw light on the truth...
thus affecting their business.


Ron

Oct 25, 2004, 6:18 AM
Post #101 of 2276 (29537 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I understand your frustration.

And I don't think they are a good thing.

All I am saying is I doubt that the USPA will do anything about it. I don't think the USPA does much of anything, and I bet they will not get involved in this since they think it will increase business for them.


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 25, 2004, 8:56 AM
Post #102 of 2276 (29478 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Well you right on one part, the USPA won't do anything, even if we weren't in Canada!

I don't think that they are increasing student numbers, though, because they are not spending time and effort to proactively reach the demo. The only people they are reaching are the one that are looking to do a skydive. When someone in ohio goes on the net and finds 6 different sites that offer skydiving and 3 of them are skyride sites, then all they are doing is skimming internet traffic.\

We're not talking about an organization that put ads on TV, radio and sets up info booths at malls and universities. We're talking about a company that sets up sites to direct potential jumpers through and skim the numbers.




Ron

Oct 25, 2004, 9:20 AM
Post #103 of 2276 (29470 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Well you right on one part, the USPA won't do anything, even if we weren't in Canada!

Sorry, didn't know that...But I don't think they will anyway.

One problem with the USPa is they need to decide if they are an organization for JUMPERS, or DZ's. You can't serve two masters. The USPA has the GM program with is nothing more than a listing in Parachutist, and a neat piece of paper to hang on your wall.

I don't think Skyride or 1800Skydive is increasing traffic either. It is making it easier (like it is hard to look in a phone book?).

I don't like some of the practices of Skyride....Using names, pictures, ect. Stealing websites...

All really bad.

But the USP is not going to do anything about it.

Call the BBB, or them and threaten to sue if they use your info, or work.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 25, 2004, 10:12 AM
Post #104 of 2276 (29452 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

The BBB has files upon files on them. Here is for skyride - though it's under a slightly different name.

Adventure Sky Diving
3240 South Cobb Drive Suite X
Smyrna, GA 30080


General Information

Principal : Ms. Gena Daley Customer Relations
Phone Number: (770) 405-1036
Fax Number: (770) 405-1051
Membership Status: No
Type-of-Business Classification: Parachute Jumping Instruction

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.


Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaint(s).
When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB file was opened in December of 2002: 30
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 29


Complaints Concerned
Advertising Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 2

Sales Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company made good faith effort to Resolve: 2

Delivery Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 2

Refund or Exchange Issues: 18
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 3; Unresolved: 2; Company made good faith
effort to Resolve: 3; Company did not respond: 10

Customer Service Issues: 4
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 2; Company made good faith effort to Resolve:
1; Company did not respond: 1

Credit or Billing Issues: 2
Outcome of all complaints -
Company did not respond: 2



Additional Information

Additional Doing-Business-As Names: 1-800 Skyride Starlight Center
1800SKYDIVE
Adventure Skydive
Adventure Skydiving Center
Alabama Skydiving, Inc.
SkyRide
Additional Addresses: 493 Airport Road, Cedartown, GA 30125
P. O. Box 440383, Kennesaw, GA 30160
Additional Phone Numbers: 800-990-5867
800-759-7433
770-846-3483
770-846-3483
770-684-4441 Fax
770-405-1051 Fax
770-405-1037


I guess the only thing left is legal action. NOTE THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS.


(This post was edited by jlmiracle on Oct 25, 2004, 10:15 AM)


Fast  (D 28237)

Oct 25, 2004, 10:40 AM
Post #105 of 2276 (29437 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well you right on one part, the USPA won't do anything, even if we weren't in Canada!

Sorry, didn't know that...But I don't think they will anyway.

One problem with the USPa is they need to decide if they are an organization for JUMPERS, or DZ's. You can't serve two masters. The USPA has the GM program with is nothing more than a listing in Parachutist, and a neat piece of paper to hang on your wall.

I don't think Skyride or 1800Skydive is increasing traffic either. It is making it easier (like it is hard to look in a phone book?).

I don't like some of the practices of Skyride....Using names, pictures, ect. Stealing websites...

All really bad.

But the USP is not going to do anything about it.

Call the BBB, or them and threaten to sue if they use your info, or work.


Funny thing is that in the milwaukee area skyride is the first listing in the phonebook.


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 25, 2004, 10:57 AM
Post #106 of 2276 (29439 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Do this the right way. Force them to address the wrongs. Enough of the wronged attack them in the LEGAL avenues they have avaliable
I guess that's why they ripped off (and that is not slander) our site. They know that the only way we can file a lawsuit is if we file it in Atlanta (we're in Canada).

FYI, My bussines partner is currently involved in another suit (completely unrelated to skydiving) and we're waiting for that to be mopped up. For us it's not as simple as a trip to court a paying a small fee.
This will take real resources.




kelel01  (A License)

Oct 25, 2004, 12:42 PM
Post #107 of 2276 (29398 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Since when is a protest illegal? If someone puts up a site that says "Skyride sucks, and this is why", how is that different from standing in front of a business with signs, initiating a boycott? It's not . . . it's just internet tactics as opposed to face-to-face. I think it would be entirely appropriate to start a website like that . . . hell, just add all the BBB complaints and resolutions to it. Or hopefully THIS page'll pop up in searches so people can see what's going on.

Kelly


WFFC  (D 24610)

Oct 25, 2004, 1:47 PM
Post #108 of 2276 (29369 views)
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     Re: [kelel01] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

It's a fine line...very fine line. Check the facts and double, then triple check prior to putting it out. It is possible that they still could be a pain in the keister about it anyway.


teason  (D 18902)

Oct 25, 2004, 1:57 PM
Post #109 of 2276 (29359 views)
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     Re: [WFFC] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hmm and how about a new company. I'm thinking about calling it 1888skyride. Do ya think they'd mind if I used their picsSly

Well if I did it they have to come to Canada to sueTongue see how they like it!

(just so we're clear, that was totally tongue in cheek)




(This post was edited by teason on Oct 25, 2004, 1:58 PM)


firstime  (B 28972)

Oct 25, 2004, 2:59 PM
Post #110 of 2276 (29325 views)
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     Re: [kelel01] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

CONSUMER ALERT!

Beware of the Middle Man.

In the recent months many websites have popped up selling gift certificates for skydiving. They claim to be operating a skydiving center in the local area and make claims that they have the highest safety record and use the best equipment when in fact they are nothing more than a middle man selling certificates redeemable at local Skydiving Schools. This adds additional markup and confusion to a fairly straight forward process.

Things to look for on a website:

No Hidden Fees

Many times you will see a price indicated on the web site which appears cheaper than the competition, but when you call and finalize your purchase you find there are additional fees. These additional fees often make what appeared to be a great deal more expensive. Our Pricing Policy is simple. NO HIDDEN FEES. The prices indicated on our website include everything to complete your first skydive, and video if purchased. Business Address - Although the website appears to represent a local facility you will be unable to find an address on the website. We are located at Calverton Airport... When you call ask them where they are located. Ask about specific information on Facilities and Aircraft - They may claim to have the best aircraft and safety record, but in fact they have no idea what you will be flying in or who you will be jumping with.



This is what our DZ put on there website


Jimbo  (D License)

Oct 25, 2004, 6:57 PM
Post #111 of 2276 (29277 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
However, putting up a site warning people about Skyride is fine.

It's probably illegal. Heard of slander? Do this the right way. Force them to address the wrongs. Enough of the wronged attack them in the LEGAL avenues they have avaliable, 1 of 2 things will happen. A) they will right the wrongs, B) they'll end up out of business from legal fees/proceedings.

It's only slander if it's false, IIRC.

-
Jim


tombuch  (D 8514)

Oct 26, 2004, 6:28 AM
Post #112 of 2276 (29231 views)
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     Re: [kelel01] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Since when is a protest illegal? If someone puts up a site that says "Skyride sucks, and this is why", how is that different from standing in front of a business with signs, initiating a boycott? It's not.

Correct. There used to be a great site called Wallmartsucks.com. It wasn't working today, but while searching I did find a good news article about protest sites in the archives of The Christian Science Monitor. Since it is an archive article it is sometimes tough to get to, so I've attached it as a Rich Text File. (If you are sweating the source, chill. The Christian Science Monitor is a solid national newspaper that limits their preaching to a single opinion piece each day.)
Attachments: Gripe Sites From CSM.rtf (9.63 KB)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 26, 2004, 6:57 AM
Post #113 of 2276 (29220 views)
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     Re: [kelel01] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If someone puts up a site that says "Skyride sucks, and this is why"
==================================

You're on to something here. Your exact idea may infringe upon a few laws, but a site with consumer info like "Questions to ask before booking a skydive" would be safe.

If all the questions directly addressed the problems that Skyride has, this would slow down thier progress. Getting people to ask the hard questions, and then having advice on calling everyone in the phone book first, or checking with the USPA for additional locations. The site would have to be 100% neutral, with no references to any specific DZ's, and just one link to the USPA.

The trick would be seeing whose web administrator (Skyride or the Anti-Skyride) is better at funneling web searches and such to thier site. My guess would be that if they saw the Anti site first, consumers would be less likey to book with Skyride. What are the chances that the Skyride guy is the best computer geek in skydiving? I'm sure one of the DZ.com people out there could top his efforts.

This is where the USPA would need to intervene, and organize the Group Members as far as sharing in the cost of the site. Between finding a jumper to do the work, and some DZ whose website has space to host a one page, mainly text site, the costs would be very low, especially after split 100 ways (or however many group memenbers there are).

Speaking of the USPA, how about having DZ's follow a written code of business ethics to qualify for group member status. If the Skyride guy has a DZ, or is getting a DZ, it would hurt him to not be a USPA DZ.

LIke Ron said, the USPA never does much anyway, so I won't hold my breath.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 26, 2004, 7:26 AM
Post #114 of 2276 (29207 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Speaking of the USPA, how about having DZ's follow a written code of business ethics to qualify for group member status. If the Skyride guy has a DZ, or is getting a DZ, it would hurt him to not be a USPA DZ.
They own at least 3 GM DZ's currently. Atlanta Skydiving Center, Pell City AL and Skydive Pennridge. I don't think that the ink had even dried on their Pennridge membership before they went and stole the Skydive City Student manual, erased a few names and tried to pass it off as their own. I've heard they are running a DZ in Minnesota also now too.


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Oct 26, 2004, 8:40 AM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 26, 2004, 7:56 AM
Post #115 of 2276 (29192 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

The trick would be seeing whose web administrator (Skyride or the Anti-Skyride) is better at funneling web searches and such to thier site. My guess would be that if they saw the Anti site first, consumers would be less likey to book with Skyride. What are the chances that the Skyride guy is the best computer geek in skydiving? I'm sure one of the DZ.com people out there could top his efforts.

This does assume that the consumers are doing checks on search engines, or using the computer at all. I have a fear that the kind of consumer that can be reached this was is a minority. But I will add a section to my long overdue jump page upgrade.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Oct 26, 2004, 8:01 AM
Post #116 of 2276 (29190 views)
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     Re: [kelel01] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Since when is a protest illegal? If someone puts up a site that says "Skyride sucks, and this is why", how is that different from standing in front of a business with signs, initiating a boycott? It's not . . . it's just internet tactics as opposed to face-to-face. I think it would be entirely appropriate to start a website like that . . . hell, just add all the BBB complaints and resolutions to it. Or hopefully THIS page'll pop up in searches so people can see what's going on.

Kelly

I would say get the short bald prick (that's Cary, if anyone's wondering) on camera on a show like 20/20 or Dateline NBC and make him look as bad as they did Ted Mayfield from the old DZ in Oregon. Make sure the show ends with USPA's website and phone number info so people know where to go to find a REAL and honest DZ, and not this Skyride bullshit.

Wishful thinking, I know... But ultimately, people are going to have to sue the prick to get their justice, and he is counting on you not having the resources to do so. And if you do have the resources, chances are he can outlast you... so, a class-action suit may be the way to go, but I'm no lawyer. I prefer publicly humiliating them on TV... Angelic

BBB's a good place to start to check a company's credibility, but how many people actually do that or think of it in the first place before doing business with them?

Any way you cut it, its going to be a long battle to level the playing field or keep them in check. I'll settle for holding them accountable for their actions, and we divvy up their stuff! Sly

Blue Skies
Billy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 26, 2004, 8:25 AM
Post #117 of 2276 (29181 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 
If the USPA would implement an ehtincs code for group members, say, by Jan, 1, then give 90 days for compliance, this guy would be out of group memebership by the spring. Of course the USPA would first need to realize than they are a private organization, and can do whatever they want, regardless of who it offends.

The idea of following an ethincs code as a requisite for memebership to a trade organization is not new. In fact I just recently read such an ethincs code, and it was pretty simple stuff. It's not a law, or a contract that opens them up to any liability, so it doens't need to be penned by a lawyer. It's simple: You want in, you follow the rules. You want in, you understand that we can boot you out at any time, with or without explanation. Done.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 9:32 AM
Post #118 of 2276 (29152 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

The DZO's on the USPA BOD shot down the ethics code that was introduced. They don't want to have to have standards either.

I completely agree that some type of ethics codes needs to be in place.

Also, the USPA, could find many reasons to revoke their individual memberships as well if the BOD would vote FOR an ethics code for GM's. I believe part of the "punishment" could be to revoke the individual memberships of the DZO's. Many times they state they are USPA CERTIFIED. We all know the USPA does not Certify dropzones.

Judy


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 9:47 AM
Post #119 of 2276 (29141 views)
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     Re: [jlmiracle] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Skyride DZs don't need to worry about USPA certification. They're National Skydiving Association approved! Tongue

Dave


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 10:01 AM
Post #120 of 2276 (29136 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Skyride DZs don't need to worry about USPA certification. They're National Skydiving Association approved! Tongue

Dave

How do I join? Crazy

judy


kelel01  (A License)

Oct 26, 2004, 10:19 AM
Post #121 of 2276 (29126 views)
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     Re: [jlmiracle] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Apparently, all you have to do is type it on your website, and it's true! WinkLaugh

Kelly


Ron

Oct 26, 2004, 10:28 AM
Post #122 of 2276 (29119 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If the USPA would implement an ehtincs code for group members, say, by Jan, 1, then give 90 days for compliance, this guy would be out of group memebership by the spring. Of course the USPA would first need to realize than they are a private organization, and can do whatever they want, regardless of who it offends.

The idea of following an ethincs code as a requisite for memebership to a trade organization is not new. In fact I just recently read such an ethincs code, and it was pretty simple stuff. It's not a law, or a contract that opens them up to any liability, so it doens't need to be penned by a lawyer. It's simple: You want in, you follow the rules. You want in, you understand that we can boot you out at any time, with or without explanation. Done.

good ideas...Here is the problem...

Is the USPA an organization for jumpers? Or DZ's?

According to the USPA they are for jumpers, and represent jumpers.

So the Group Member program is against that tenent.

Being a GM DZ is nothing more than saying you will follow the USPA's rules and sending in money.

It is in essense nothing more than advertising in Parachutist and to get referals from the USPA.

Last I was told the GM program was not solvent and was supported by individual MEMBERS fees.

The group member program needs to:
1.Actually DO something (And they would not even pass a requirment to have a pledge to follow good business practices)

2. Go away. I should not pay to support a program that does nothing when it is run from an organization that is supposed to support ME, not the DZ.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 10:44 AM
Post #123 of 2276 (29106 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Serious question that maybe someone can answer. Where do the group member dues go? I really have very little understanding of the GM program. It always seemed to me to be a listing in parachutist every month and not a whole lot more. But for a skydiving club that doesn't even have a DZ to join, it would cost $200/year. The bigger the DZ, the more it costs. Why is that? Do they do more work for the bigger DZs? What's that money get spent on?

Sorry for being off topic. But I'm concerned where skyride's hard earned money is going. Tongue

Dave


slug  (B License)

Oct 26, 2004, 10:50 AM
Post #124 of 2276 (29103 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hi Ron

Sorry but i agree with every thing you said.Shocked

But if USPA does try and ant type of action against skyride the legal fee's/websight etc, will come out of USPA's pocket IOW membership due's.Unimpressed

R.I.P.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 11:23 AM
Post #125 of 2276 (29079 views)
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     Re: [Ron] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ron, you know I would love to see the GM program go away, but it's a ways off if that ever happens.

What do you think about an ethics code for individual members?

Judy


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 26, 2004, 12:31 PM
Post #126 of 2276 (29143 views)
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     Re: [davelepka] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If the USPA would implement an ehtincs code for group members, say, by Jan, 1, then give 90 days for compliance, this guy would be out of group memebership by the spring.

Is Skyride a group member?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 26, 2004, 2:12 PM
Post #127 of 2276 (29106 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Not exactly, but all three of their DZ's are. Same owners of all the businesses.


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 26, 2004, 3:54 PM
Post #128 of 2276 (29082 views)
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     Re: [AggieDave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Its fraud. Its theft. Its unethical. Its bad for skydiving.

BB, I agree with you 110% on that, definately they've gone well above and beyond what would be considered ethical and have broken some laws while doing that.

Its going to take a team of DZs working together or better yet the USPA to bring the legal issues to bear, simply due to the costs involved, though.

I just wanted to make a point about individual DZs accepting or not accepting the certificates and that how I don't feel like its the best solution at this point.

If they are doing something illegal (and I don't have enough details to know) then, since they cross state lines, it becomes a federal matter. Maybe the mail fraud laws apply, or racketeering, or plain old fraud... Anyhow, if anyone has actual knowledge of illegal activities they should contact the nearest US Attorney's office.


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 27, 2004, 7:57 AM
Post #129 of 2276 (29017 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Being familiar with the Detroit area, I went to SkydiveDetroit.com. As far as I could see, they made no representation about any physical location. There were references to a toll-free number on the site.

There are only two things I can see. Are any of the pictures they use protected by copyright? Do the owners care, and have they done anything? If there are DZ's taking the certificates, then I think it may come back to the benefit that those DZ's provide to Skyride.com. That provides support, and there isn't anything illegal in that.
|


(This post was edited by dreamsville on Oct 27, 2004, 8:20 AM)


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 27, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #130 of 2276 (29013 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I'd love to find them using one of my pictures... stealing work AND using it to make money -- you could get a pretty penny or two out of it.

Most of their sites suck too... they're just stupid...

Quote:
No skydiving center in Ohio has the amenities available at the Cincinnati Skydiving Center. The facilities at Cincinnati Skydiving Center have been designed with your comfort and convenience in mind. In addition to the top notch facilities, you will also enjoy the following amenities:
All student rigs are equipped with all of the latest safety features, and have state of the art AAD's (Automatic Activation Devices).
Skydive Philadelphia can arrange all of your Rigging Services.
Competitively priced lift tickets.

Huh... well if Richmond stopped taking them, I wonder where they're sending people now. Philadelphia? Laugh


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 27, 2004, 8:10 AM
Post #131 of 2276 (29010 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
With Google AdWords you create your own ads, choose keywords to help us match your ads to your audience and pay only when someone clicks on them.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?! LaughLaugh


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:06 AM
Post #132 of 2276 (28987 views)
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     Re: [dreamsville] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
There are only two things I can see. Are any of the pictures they use protected by copyright? Do the owners care, and have they done anything?

All pictures are protected - you don't need to "copyright" them to get this.


f1shlips  (A 44901)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:33 AM
Post #133 of 2276 (28974 views)
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     Re: [kelpdiver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
All pictures are protected - you don't need to "copyright" them to get this.

Exactly, its a "copy right" -- ie a right afforded to you by the govt. Not a "copyright" a thing you have to ask someone to get.


tombuch  (D 8514)

Oct 27, 2004, 9:51 AM
Post #134 of 2276 (28960 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
With Google AdWords you create your own ads, choose keywords to help us match your ads to your audience and pay only when someone clicks on them.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?! LaughLaugh

Hey, that's pretty fun, and it only takes a few minutes each day!

-tb


justchrisdsp  (D 28217)

Oct 27, 2004, 10:53 AM
Post #135 of 2276 (28932 views)
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     Re: [tombuch] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i called up the one in alabama, pell city, i asked them if it was a different dropzone under a different name, i said i was interested in a tandem and that i was close to the dropzone i mentioned, no shit they said "yes that's us" so i was like ok, then i said are yall in the city it says yall are in, the guy goes yup that's us. so i asked him to confirm the directions from huntville. the dropzone he was lying about and telling me he was is about 20 minutes south of huntsville, he told me i had to drive all the way down to bham and take 20/59 to get there, and i said, but isnt where i'm going between huntsville and bham, he said dont worry just follow the directions and you'll be there in no time, he then tried to get me to give him a credit card number to reserve my spot for a tandem. so no shit, if i had been a whuffo, i would have had to drive 2 1/2 hours out of my way passing a perfectly good dropzone that is 20 minutes away to make a tandem. not to mention that pell city has its dropzone in the local phonebooks of every major city in alabama, plus a few in surrounding states. i personally think this is bullshit. i think the uspa should step in and make some kind of rule about ethical business practice. the only thing that 1-800 skydive, and skyride are doing is killing the enthusiasm that bring in new jumpers. if i had had to drive 21/2 hours to make my first jump because some asshole wanted to make an extra dollar then i never would have continued in this sport. i have called pell city numerous times asking if they were different dropzones in alabama, i asked them if they were emerald coast, i asked them if they where skydive alabama, and every time they have falsely said that yes they are the dropzone mentioned. i dont know what the fuck kind of operation they are running there but it is complete bullshit. they need to be shut down, if not by the bbb. then the uspa, and if not by the uspa then by jumpers. business practices like this should not be tolerated by anyone. oh and by the way. i hope everyone has a safe and illusrtious jumping career. even those assholes at ASC, and skyride and all other bullshit organizations. i hope they get their asses raped in jail, but let them jump safely.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Oct 27, 2004, 12:44 PM
Post #136 of 2276 (28901 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
i called up the one in alabama, pell city, i asked them if it was a different dropzone under a different name, i said i was interested in a tandem and that i was close to the dropzone i mentioned, no shit they said "yes that's us" so i was like ok, then i said are yall in the city it says yall are in, the guy goes yup that's us. so i asked him to confirm the directions from huntville. the dropzone he was lying about and telling me he was is about 20 minutes south of huntsville, he told me i had to drive all the way down to bham and take 20/59 to get there, and i said, but isnt where i'm going between huntsville and bham, he said dont worry just follow the directions and you'll be there in no time, he then tried to get me to give him a credit card number to reserve my spot for a tandem. so no shit, if i had been a whuffo, i would have had to drive 2 1/2 hours out of my way passing a perfectly good dropzone that is 20 minutes away to make a tandem. not to mention that pell city has its dropzone in the local phonebooks of every major city in alabama, plus a few in surrounding states. i personally think this is bullshit. i think the uspa should step in and make some kind of rule about ethical business practice. the only thing that 1-800 skydive, and skyride are doing is killing the enthusiasm that bring in new jumpers. if i had had to drive 21/2 hours to make my first jump because some asshole wanted to make an extra dollar then i never would have continued in this sport. i have called pell city numerous times asking if they were different dropzones in alabama, i asked them if they were emerald coast, i asked them if they where skydive alabama, and every time they have falsely said that yes they are the dropzone mentioned. i dont know what the fuck kind of operation they are running there but it is complete bullshit. they need to be shut down, if not by the bbb. then the uspa, and if not by the uspa then by jumpers. business practices like this should not be tolerated by anyone. oh and by the way. i hope everyone has a safe and illusrtious jumping career. even those assholes at ASC, and skyride and all other bullshit organizations. i hope they get their asses raped in jail, but let them jump safely.

Now you see why I quit going there after 7 great years under the former owners. I only live a 10 minute drive from there but would rather drive an hour and 45 minutes to Cullman to get my jumps!!!

ASC Cedartown and ASC Pell City can just kiss my ass!

Blue Skies
Billy


bigway

Oct 27, 2004, 3:03 PM
Post #137 of 2276 (28851 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

so all this talk for the last five days sound really good.....but is anyone going to do anything about this?
there is enough people here that want something done about.
Now are the american jumpers in these forums going to team togethor and make the USPA do something about it?
I am sure you have an AGM where enough people could get togethor to force your association to do something.
I am very interested to see if this forum will turn in to action instead of just debating and arguing.
I am not from america but if i was i would be right uo for dedicating my spare time to bring these guys down.
Good Luck guys and do something about it!Wink


justchrisdsp  (D 28217)

Oct 27, 2004, 4:41 PM
Post #138 of 2276 (28824 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

bigway is right, we need to petition the uspa to do somehting about it, are there any law buffs around here that can help me out with getting a petition sent around, maybe get some signatures. i am a little young to understand the full process of taking something like this on but what i lack in knowledge i will gladly make up for with youthfull exuberance. i say we get a petition started or some kind of signing list saying that if the uspa does not do something about this we will not renew our membership or some kind of other monetary threat of action. it seems that money is the only reason people get off their asses to do anything anyway. like i said i would love to have a lawyer or someone experienced with such an action to help me get something like this started. hope to hear some good responses


bigway

Oct 27, 2004, 5:15 PM
Post #139 of 2276 (28810 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i am pretty sire you will not need a petition but at your agm maybeyou have something like proxy votes that you can all put your votes togethor and have one person represent you all.
something along these lines. whoever listens to a petition?


flyangel2

Oct 27, 2004, 7:13 PM
Post #140 of 2276 (28783 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
i say we get a petition started or some kind of signing list saying that if the uspa does not do something about this we will not renew our membership or some kind of other monetary threat of action.

Might want to go with some other kind of monetary threat. If you aren't a USPA memeber, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Oct 28, 2004, 5:18 AM
Post #141 of 2276 (28746 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
If you aren't a USPA memeber, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.

That statement is not always true.

Chris Welker


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Oct 28, 2004, 6:18 AM
Post #142 of 2276 (28728 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Someone hit on the easiest answer earlier in this thread.Go to your DZO this weekend and ask them to stop taking the Skyride certificates.It's as simple as that.If a DZO can't see the pattern that has emerged then they deserve to have a DZ pop up right next to them.


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 6:48 AM
Post #143 of 2276 (28715 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
If you aren't a USPA member, you won't be able to jump at USPA DZs.

That statement is not always true.

Chris Welker

Then that means that the USPA DZ isn't following the USPA guildlines. If a non-USPA member is jumping without the USPA membership and gets hurt, then the DZ is taking a chance of losing it's USPA membership. I know there are some DZOs that take that chance, but I think the numbers for those that require you to be a USPA member far out weight those that don't. I'm not willing to take that chance.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 7:02 AM
Post #144 of 2276 (28708 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

There are even non-USPA DZs that require USPA membership to jump there.

Dave


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 28, 2004, 7:16 AM
Post #145 of 2276 (28696 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Then that means that the USPA DZ isn't following the USPA guildlines.
First, not all DZs are USPA members.
Second, I've jumped with an expired membership before - I showed my card at manifest, and no one paid attention to the expiration date (I wasn't trying, I actually didn't realize it was expired.)

That being said, I don't think that's the answer. I agree, we should pressure DZOs to not take the skyride certificate, if you feel that strongly about it. Vote with your wallet - don't go to a DZ that does, and make sure they know why they're not getting your money. Aside from that, I'm sure there's some legal battles that could be fought - stealing other people's work is still a crime.
And isn't it about election time?

Ok, I'll add this on in case you haven't visted the 'elections' forum (you have though, right? Wink)

This was posted by MakeItHappen here (note to Jan - I'd put your name/position in your signature at least until elections are over. People reading your answers probably don't know who 'MakeItHappen' is)

Quote:
I presented information on the SkyRide operation to the Group Membership Committee that resulted in a letter of disapproval of SkyRide's business practices. These practices have not changed so USPA's attorney is being consulted.
SkyRide operation was put on the main agenda, that prompted SkyRide owner Cary Quattrochi to attend a BOD meeting. I fielded many email and phone inquiries about SkyRide and have elevated the awareness of their business practices.


(This post was edited by wildblue on Oct 28, 2004, 7:27 AM)


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #146 of 2276 (28676 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
First, not all DZs are USPA members.
Second, I've jumped with an expired membership before - I showed my card at manifest, and no one paid attention to the expiration date (I wasn't trying, I actually didn't realize it was expired.)

Yes, I know not all DZs are USPA members.

You said that you jumped with an expired membership. Do you think that is the norm? Was it a small DZ or some place like Eloy or Perris Valley?

I know and trust Jan, and believe she will do what she can.


Fast  (D 28237)

Oct 28, 2004, 9:34 AM
Post #147 of 2276 (28639 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

This is a fun read about the criminal implications of copyright law.

http://www.usdoj.gov/...ercrime/ipmanual.htm



Anyways, I think that the best way to deal with them is to ensure that all copied work is registered band together and push for the government to press charges for copyright violation. That will at a minimum make them know we aren't happy.


If travel is your problem I am sure that you can have your issues raised via proxy by another party to the situation etc. The CEOs of the record companies didn't show up at every little hick town where they wanted to press charges against someone for downloading music.


All the people who have had websites ripped off, pictures stolen, etc need to work together and deal with that part of it. Outside of that it will take a lot of work and the gathering of complaints from decieved customers. Getting DZs to stop taking the certificates is in theory a good idea but the competative nature of business and the greedy nature people have will prevent them from working together to stop it.


(This post was edited by Fast on Oct 28, 2004, 9:35 AM)


jlmiracle  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 10:55 AM
Post #148 of 2276 (28598 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Was it a small DZ or some place like Eloy or Perris Valley?

Big DZ - YES. I know someone that regularly jumps at one of those big dz's that hasn't renewed in a quite a while.


Judy


sid  (D 20135)

Oct 28, 2004, 12:14 PM
Post #149 of 2276 (28574 views)
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     Re: [jlmiracle] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

well, y'all might like this. Some of you know that I run a couple of web sites, one of which http://www.sidsrigging.com was approached via an email today to provide a link to their site.

Quote:
From: Torin Goode <setoddric2004@yahoo.com>
>To: sid@sidsrigging.com
>Subject: Linking from your site.
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Hello. I represent 1-800-skyride. We are a Nationwide provider of outdoor adventure sports specializing in aeronautical sports such as hang-gliding, hot air ballooning, skydiving, glider rides, Bi-Plane / Warbird rides. We believe our site would be a great fit as a link on your web site. Our goal is to promote adventure sports and to build a lasting relationship.

I had to think about this for at least, oh a nanosecond, and replied with this
Quote:
Thank you for asking prior to linking. I have had experience with your company and I must, in this instance, refuse your request.

1-800-SKYRIDE are parasitical thieves who do more damage to the skydiving community than any other company I have ever known. You promote yourself through the use of "ghost websites" that purport to represent actual dropzones that do not exist. You plagiarize the web sites of real and reputable dropzones, such as the one run by friend Tim Eason, whose site you just blatantly copied, even using his personal photograph.

You continue to use copyrighted photographs to represent yourself without the permission of the photographers. Even worse you misrepresent the prices being charged, drawing people in with one price, then loading them with lift tickets, gear rental and training charges (bait and switch I believe).

Your company represents the very worst aspect of business marketing, if you could put the creative energy you use in decieving the public and stealing from your fellow skydivers into running an honorable and honest business I'd link to you in a heartbeat. As it is, I hope that your company crashes and burns and that you are exposed for the frauds and cheats that you are.

Please feel free to use this critique of your company in any advertising..........

VERYsincerely

Peter Draper - Owner Sid's Rigging

do you think I should wait for a reply Crazy


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 28, 2004, 12:58 PM
Post #150 of 2276 (28552 views)
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     Re: [justchrisdsp] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

1-800-skydive is not quite the same thing as Skyride, because when you call the number you get a real drop zone that represents itself as the same entity to everyone, not as SkydiveSomethingelse. It's regional call forwarding. It's not the same thing as leading people to believe you are in one place and trying to get them to go to another.
|


(This post was edited by dreamsville on Oct 28, 2004, 12:59 PM)


sid  (D 20135)

Oct 28, 2004, 12:59 PM
Post #151 of 2276 (29477 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ya know - on second thoughts I may have been a little harsh, I decided to put a link on the site for them http://www.sidsrigging.com/links/links_index.htm


bigway

Oct 28, 2004, 1:08 PM
Post #152 of 2276 (29469 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

[making clapping sounds and cheering with lots of whistling and somping of feet]



now who is next to join sid in what all american skydiver should be doing??
can we flood there system with emails of their reality?


sid  (D 20135)

Oct 28, 2004, 1:10 PM
Post #153 of 2276 (29467 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
[making clapping sounds and cheering with lots of whistling and somping of feet]



now who is next to join sid in what all american skydiver should be doing??
can we flood there system with emails of their reality?

Oh! Did I leave their email address on there? My Bad!


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 1:10 PM
Post #154 of 2276 (29467 views)
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     Re: [jlmiracle] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
Was it a small DZ or some place like Eloy or Perris Valley?


Big DZ - YES. I know someone that regularly jumps at one of those big dz's that hasn't renewed in a quite a while.


Judy

That's too bad. Doesn't seem quiet fair, but hey, if that guy/gal wants to cheat the system, it's up to them. On on the other hand am happy to pay for my USPA membership dues, after all the hard work they have done with the TSA.


bigway

Oct 28, 2004, 1:23 PM
Post #155 of 2276 (29463 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

and you are therefore insured while the other person is not so that will be their problem when they drop a reserve handle or a camera on someones property and not yoursWink


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 1:38 PM
Post #156 of 2276 (29459 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Well I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not my van they hit if they don't have USPA membership.


bigway

Oct 28, 2004, 2:07 PM
Post #157 of 2276 (29447 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Have you ever heard of anything being damaged from a falling reserve handle or any falling gear from a skydiver. I would be really interested in reading an article on this subject. it would be interesting to know what sort of damage us skydivers have caused without personal injury.
Does anyone have any links?
sorry to hijack but i will surrenderCool


flyangel2

Oct 28, 2004, 2:24 PM
Post #158 of 2276 (29439 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hey, move it buddieWink

That's a mighty good idea for a new thread. Go for it. Let's see what people say.


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 28, 2004, 2:29 PM
Post #159 of 2276 (29434 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Just a thought. This thread doesn't seem to have much do do with how it started.
|


bigway

Oct 28, 2004, 2:36 PM
Post #160 of 2276 (29426 views)
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     Re: [dreamsville] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

oopppss sorry.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Oct 28, 2004, 3:52 PM
Post #161 of 2276 (29413 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
well, y'all might like this. Some of you know that I run a couple of web sites, one of which http://www.sidsrigging.com was approached via an email today to provide a link to their site.
do you think I should wait for a reply Crazy

Hell no... What you did is just fine. Great statement! CoolCoolCool

As far as I'm concerned, I wish those assholes would just go fuck themselves, and not the rest of us!! Mad Hey Cary, you reading this, you short bald prick? Laugh

Blue Skies
Billy


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 4:39 PM
Post #162 of 2276 (29394 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Google will eventually find that and link it to any "Skyride" searches...but it won't show up if you search just for skydiving, etc.


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 28, 2004, 6:41 PM
Post #163 of 2276 (29361 views)
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     Re: [dreamsville] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

1-800-skydive is clearly more ethical than skyride, but I don't consider them all that different in some ways. They only represent participating dropzones. So they may send you many miles out of your way, passing multiple other dropzones, to make your jump. Now they don't misrepresent themselves, but they don't give all the facts either.

Again, skyride is in a whole different league, but I don't like 1800skydive either.

Dave


quiksilver

Oct 28, 2004, 8:42 PM
Post #164 of 2276 (29331 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hey Chasing Blue:

I couldn't believe it when I came across your post as I was surfing the web. You
have no idea what I have gone through with this so called company!!! I am in the
process of sending all the documentation I have on them to a lawyer who has
expressed an interest in filing a Class Action suit against them. I actually live in NJ
but I am willing (and will probably have to) go down to Georgia to take them out
personally. I also have contacted a local Investigative reporter in GA at FOX 5
NEWS who is interested in covering the story and we are working on trying to
locate people in the GA area who have had negative experiences with SKYRIDE.
As far as I'm concerned, they pretty much stole my money and I am now out
$1300.00. I have so much more to say about this and would be happy to share all
the details with everyone so that we can get enough backing to put them out of business
altogether. Speaking of which, they're not even legally IN business as far as I know,
since they're not legally registered as a company. (I checked with both the state and
county offices and they have no info. on them at all).

If ANYONE here from GA has had negative experiences with SKYRIDE, please let me know. Since they are headquartered in GA, the reporter I am in contact with wants to do a local piece about them and ideally would like to interview (in addition to myself) a few Georgia residents who have had negative dealings with them. I usually don't post my email address out on the web, but in the interest of bringing these people to justice, I am doing everything I possibly can to ensure that no one else is ever taken advantage of by them again!!! Please contact me at cgm@jny.com, with ANY information at all, along with your permission (at your discretion) for my lawyer to contact you directly (again for purposes of pursuing a Class Action).


Together we WILL bring this company down and it is our duty as consumers to make sure that this is exactly what happens!!!

~Claire


Greene  (D 5835)

Oct 28, 2004, 9:35 PM
Post #165 of 2276 (29322 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  




Greene  (D 5835)

Oct 28, 2004, 9:41 PM
Post #166 of 2276 (29319 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

OOPSFrown

Contact us.Smile

We will be willing to help you with $'s

Skies blue
SGC
since 1961


Greene  (D 5835)

Oct 28, 2004, 9:47 PM
Post #167 of 2276 (29318 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

You would be better off if you posted your profile information on DZ.com.

You will get a better response from skydivers.
SGC


bigway

Oct 29, 2004, 1:13 AM
Post #168 of 2276 (29308 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

be careful as this could be the marketer or someonelse from skyride getting all our responses so they can start working on backing up any acusations against themselves.
nothing ever came up for me fromthis forum when i did a search. Just be careful as we dont want to tell them anything. If we did we could be giving them loads of time to make right and then their will be no cliams.


If this person wants to be taken serious they need to fill out their profile with their name.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 29, 2004, 2:05 AM
Post #169 of 2276 (29302 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
be careful as this could be the marketer or someonelse from skyride getting all our responses so they can start working on backing up any acusations against themselves.
nothing ever came up for me fromthis forum when i did a search. Just be careful as we dont want to tell them anything. If we did we could be giving them loads of time to make right and then their will be no cliams.


If this person wants to be taken serious they need to fill out their profile with their name.

Oh, get serious. If that were the case, he can easily fill in the profile with information that you have no means of discerning involvement with Skyride. All you need to do is check out the reporter to validate that he is exactly what he appears to be.

Skyride doesn't need to defend themselves. The beauty of their operation is that they can screw over 5% of their customers and it has little bearing on their ability to get more first time jumpers as customers. For the most part, bad customer service is perfectly legal in this country.

A story on the 10o'clock news may hurt all DZs, BTW, so it wouldn't hurt to make sure local skydivers out there make sure the reporter understands what's going on. The story needs to have some blurb on how to pick a good DZ.


DanglesOZQld  (F 623)

Oct 29, 2004, 2:38 AM
Post #170 of 2276 (29297 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do? [In reply to]  

NO YOU DON'T!!!

AND I WORK AT A DZ THAT IS PURE PROOF OF THAT!
(And the rare fun jumpers we do allow to jump with us are more of a threat to the business than an aid!)

BSBD -Dangles.


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Oct 29, 2004, 5:08 AM
Post #171 of 2276 (29286 views)
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     Re: [dreamsville] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

1-800-skydive is not quite the same thing as Skyride, because when you call the number you get a real drop zone that represents itself as the same entity to everyone, not as SkydiveSomethingelse. It's regional call forwarding. It's not the same thing as leading people to believe you are in one place and trying to get them to go to another.
In reply to:

Well here in Tennessee, if you call 1-800-SKY-DIVE you will get Atlanta Skydiving Center (ASC) and they will have you driving 6-7 hours past at least 2 good DZ's to make a skydive.

So, what is your point?

Chris Welker


wmw999  (D 6296)

Oct 29, 2004, 5:10 AM
Post #172 of 2276 (29279 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Well, in the Houston area, it gets you to Spaceland, which is a real DZ. I think it's one of the regional 800 numbers, and it all depends on who buys it first.

If you have a local DZ that owns the number, and that's in trouble, it might be worth making sure that some other reputable DZ gets the number rather than its going vacant.

Wendy W.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 29, 2004, 5:44 AM
Post #173 of 2276 (29268 views)
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     Re: [bigway] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
be careful as this could be the marketer or someonelse...If this person wants to be taken serious they need to fill out their profile with their name.

jny.com = Jones Apparel Group...what's up with that? Using a business email address for this? Smells like fish at this point....


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 29, 2004, 5:46 AM
Post #174 of 2276 (29267 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
...
Well here in Tennessee, if you call 1-800-SKY-DIVE you will get Atlanta Skydiving Center (ASC) and they will have you driving 6-7 hours past at least 2 good DZ's to make a skydive...

Hmmmm,...that seems to be a questionable business practice, too!


quiksilver

Oct 29, 2004, 6:21 AM
Post #175 of 2276 (29256 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hey Guys,

I apologize. In my rush to get the word out, I totally overlooked creating a profile, providing my name, etc. I'll have to do that later on tonight when I get home. But I want you all to know that I have nothing to hide.

My name is Claire McHugh and I live in NJ. Obviously I prefer not to say exactly where, given the nature of this case. I provided my work email address because I am almost always at work and wanted to be able to get instant notification of any messages. But you can also reach me at quicksilver_0_7@yahoo.com. Honestly I have never gone skydiving to this day. I would still love to go but between work, the lawsuit, and everything else. I just don't have the time. Plus the weather is getting colder up here in NJ by the day. I understand that some of you are cautious and may be thinking I am a decoy of some sort. I can assure you I am not. I just want what is mine and what is just deserved. Later on today, I will log back in and enter my profile, provide all my information, etc. If I thought I wasn't going to get "hate" calls, I'd even provide my phone number if that helped to prove anything but to date, I've already gotten a lot of nasty emails pertaining to this matter and I feel very uncomfortable putting myself at risk in terms of privacy. If there is anything else I can do to prove that I am legitimate, please let me know!!!! Again, I have absolutely nothing to hide. But 1800SKYRIDE does. And you can check out their record on the Better Business Bureau website. To date they have 30 complaints filed against them, 19 of which have gone unresolved. Also, they operate under a million different names (Alabama Skydiving, Adventure Skydiving, 800-skyride, 800-Skydive, Starlight Skyride Center, etc.) and are affiliated with so many locations that it's becoming a full time job to track these people down.....

One more thing -- If you don't believe me, you can go to the FOX 5 TV website and email the I Team directly regarding this matter. If you don't receive a response from an R. Travis within 3-4 days confirming that he has been advised (by me) of the situation and that we are working on getting a story out to the public, let me know and I'll ask him to personally email you myself. I don't know what else I can do to prove that this is not some kind of hoax. Perhaps when my lawyer sends out notices to 800-skyride customers advising them all of a Class Action suit, it will be recognized that this is serious.........

Claire


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 29, 2004, 6:43 AM
Post #176 of 2276 (29953 views)
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     Re: [flyangel2] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
You said that you jumped with an expired membership. Do you think that is the norm?
No, I doubt it's 'the norm' - but it is possible. I jumped at a large DZ with expired memebership (which was odd, because they're computerized, and I thought that was one of the things they kept track of) ... but, anyway, that's not the point here Smile I actually think people should be members - the idea of not renewing to make a point to the USPA is stupid... that's all I was trying to say there.


quiksilver - $1300?? How did they take you for $1300 and you haven't made a single jump?? You said you're in NJ, where were they going to send you to jump? Can you give us more of the story.

Oh, and Bo - just wait 'till Google gets a hold of this thread :D


(This post was edited by wildblue on Oct 29, 2004, 6:43 AM)


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Oct 29, 2004, 6:45 AM
Post #177 of 2276 (29950 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Do us (the sport) a favour; if you're talking to the press about your experiences with 1800-skyride please make sure they're aware that this company isn't terribly indicative of the sort business practices of most skydivers/DZ’s and that not everyone in the wider skydiving community is particularly happy with their activities.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 29, 2004, 7:11 AM
Post #178 of 2276 (29936 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
quiksilver - $1300?? How did they take you for $1300 and you haven't made a single jump??

Quote:

Wondering that myself...1300?

Anyway,
Hey Blue...(and everyone)
Just remember that when you jump with an expired membership, you have NO liability insurance.Crazy


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Oct 29, 2004, 8:09 AM
Post #179 of 2276 (29915 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Check this out

They represent themself as Skydive Chicago on the bottom of this page: http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/index.html

They put Skydive Chicago in the banner on this page: http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/giftcert.html

And you can see it used on the site map as well:
http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/indexing.html

If you let your mouse rest on the "Facilities" tag under "Experienced Jumpers" the help tag says "Skydive Chicago" and does anyone know whos facilities these are? http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/fac.html

OF course the typical ripped off photos showing this DZ has landscape that spans Skydive AZ, the old Skydive America, Elsinore, etc:
http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/photogal.html


Do you think Norman Kent allowed his shots to be on this page?
http://www.chicagoskydiving.net/videos.html

I am curious on how Quicksilver lost $1300? Or was that a typo?

Want to see something scary? Type "Skydive Skyride" without the quotes into Google - it looks like Skyride has over 600 active pages on the internet. Any Google spider/bot will place the dropzone.com pages, and Sid's page well at the end of those links most likely. This just proves that any "internet" type campaign against this company will do nothing. It needs to be legal.


(This post was edited by ChasingBlueSky on Oct 29, 2004, 8:14 AM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 29, 2004, 8:27 AM
Post #180 of 2276 (29901 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I am curious on how Quicksilver lost $1300? Or was that a typo?

Sounds like she got a package for several people. 5 with video?


sid  (D 20135)

Oct 29, 2004, 8:27 AM
Post #181 of 2276 (29900 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If you let your mouse rest on the "Facilities" tag under "Experienced Jumpers" the help tag says "Skydive Chicago" and does anyone know whos facilities these are?

nope - but they're in New York too!!!!! http://www.newyorkskydiving.com/fac.html


MakeItHappen

Oct 29, 2004, 8:47 AM
Post #182 of 2276 (29884 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
As far as I'm concerned, they pretty much stole my money and I am now out
$1300.00. I have so much more to say about this and would be happy to share all
the details with everyone so that we can get enough backing to put them out of business
altogether.

That would be an unsual claim against them.
They have been know to give refunds, but only when customers make a big stink about it.
As far as I know, every DZ working with SkyRide has been paid - sometimes a little late.

In reply to:
Speaking of which, they're not even legally IN business as far as I know,
since they're not legally registered as a company. (I checked with both the state and
county offices and they have no info. on them at all).

Yeah right.
Go to GA Corporations Search
Type CASC, inc

In reply to:
~Claire

Your writing style sounds like Cary.....

For your reading pleasure....
SkyRide Scam has been updated.
This comes up first when you google SkyRide Scam
and on the first page of skydive skyride


.


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 29, 2004, 8:55 AM
Post #183 of 2276 (29879 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
They represent themself as Skydive Chicago on the bottom of this page:

And "Chicago Skydiving Center" is close enough to "Chicagoland Skydiving Center" to bring some sort of trade mark suit against them (intent to confuse I'm sure is there)

Quote:
If you let your mouse rest on the "Facilities" tag under "Experienced Jumpers" the help tag says "Skydive Chicago" and does anyone know whos facilities these are?
Well it's ASC of course! http://www.ascskydiving.com/skydive_safety.htm

Quote:
Type "Skydive Skyride" without the quotes into Google
Type "Skyride dropzone scam" in there... Laugh Some of the dz.com threads have actually popped up on there... hopefully people see those too.


wildblue  (D 26027)

Oct 29, 2004, 9:14 AM
Post #184 of 2276 (29863 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ok, so would approaching DZOs do anything? Perris deals with Skyride, so does Skydive Columbus

I'd be interested to hear what prompted Richmond to stop taking them.


sunshine  (D License)

Oct 29, 2004, 9:14 AM
Post #185 of 2276 (29862 views)
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     Re: [MakeItHappen] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ok, after checking out your website i'm even more pissed off. I'm a big tightwad with my money, but would gladly donate to a fund for a lawsuit against these fuckers. I know we have some lawyers on the forums, if we could get them to research and get a case together, that would be a good start. If a bunch of dzcommers pitch in to a fund to pay expenses, perhaps we can take them down. Just my random thoughts.


justchrisdsp  (D 28217)

Oct 29, 2004, 10:23 AM
Post #186 of 2276 (29831 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

go to alskydiving.com, the supposed facilities for chicago skydiving look earily like the ones for pell city's alabama skydiving center. and by earily i mean exactlyi the same. someone explain that to me


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 29, 2004, 11:38 AM
Post #187 of 2276 (29801 views)
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     Re: What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

One heads-up for the future: www.skydivegear.com (I don't see a need to make it clicky) seems to be an online gear store in development. It's registered to the same guy as Skyride. When/if it opens, be aware of where your money might be going. Now of course I have no idea who actually owns the gear store or how they might be affiliated with skyride. But I'd sure want to find out before buying something from them.

Dave


3ringheathen  (D 18302)

Oct 29, 2004, 1:20 PM
Post #188 of 2276 (29760 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

Want to see something scary? Type "Skydive Skyride" without the quotes into Google - it looks like Skyride has over 600 active pages on the internet. Any Google spider/bot will place the dropzone.com pages, and Sid's page well at the end of those links most likely. This just proves that any "internet" type campaign against this company will do nothing.


Most of you probably have a free personal web page with your internet account.

What if everyone simply devoted one page to exposing this fraud?

All it needs is a brief explanation/warning about skyride and ASC, and links to the real USPA website.

If hundreds of skydivers took this approach, wouldn't their pages come up before Cockroachy's?

Food for thought.
-Josh


(This post was edited by 3ringheathen on Oct 29, 2004, 1:22 PM)


dreamsville  (D 25528)

Oct 29, 2004, 3:57 PM
Post #189 of 2276 (29710 views)
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     Re: [chriswelker] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

People pay to share that number in their region. It's just a bigger billboard that shows up more places. I wasn't aware that our DZ shared a subscription to 1800skydive with ASC, although I know SDC has used it for years. As far as I know, SDC does not accept Skyride stuff, but I will ask. I doubt it very much. I will pass it on to the DZOs when I see them tomorrow.
|


WFFC  (D 24610)

Oct 29, 2004, 11:59 PM
Post #190 of 2276 (29670 views)
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     Re: [wmw999] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Well, in the Houston area, it gets you to Spaceland, which is a real DZ. I think it's one of the regional 800 numbers, and it all depends on who buys it first.

Exactly - See here for a listing of the 1800skydive number lessees. A DZ can lease the number for several zipcodes.


firstime  (B 28972)

Oct 30, 2004, 10:54 AM
Post #191 of 2276 (29620 views)
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     Re: [weegegirl] What can we do? [In reply to]  

"DITTO" you just summed up 189 replies. It's called
sanctions!!! Well said weegegirl


kallend  (D 23151)

Oct 30, 2004, 2:00 PM
Post #192 of 2276 (29597 views)
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     Re: [firstime] What can we do? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
"DITTO" you just summed up 189 replies. It's called
sanctions!!! Well said weegegirl

So who has the list of participating DZs?


quiksilver

Nov 9, 2004, 6:00 PM
Post #193 of 2276 (29486 views)
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     Re: [mr2mk1g] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

just a test!


quiksilver

Nov 9, 2004, 6:14 PM
Post #194 of 2276 (29481 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hi Guys (and girls) :)

It's been a while since I have visited the site, mostly due to an outrageous work schedule and pretty crazy hours. Therefore, I just wanted to post a "test" thread to make sure I was posting correctly.
Anyhow, I was taking a look through some of the posts since I have been away and noticed that a couple of people questioned the fact that I had lost $1300. Actually, all of the money is not mine. Approx. $200 worth is actually my portion and the rest belongs to siblings and friends. (There was a group of 7 of us in all, hence the high $$ amount).

At any rate, I wish I could say I have a great update but so far, things have been a bit slower moving than I would like. The lawyer I am working with is still reviewing my documents and researching Skyride to determine whether or not they are "worth" enough to go after as far as a "Class Action" is concerned. No doubt there are plenty of unhappy customers but the issue is, does SKyride pull in enough dough to make them worth suing on this kind of a level? Apparently that's still being determined....
The other thing I've done is contacted the county police department where Skyride's supposed headquarters are located and there is a detective there who is presently conducting an investigation into the company for mail fraud (being that I mailed them a money order which they cashed, thereby making this action a federal offense).

I am almost hesitant to make this info. public since as a few of you have pointed out, anyone (including the Skyride people) could be reading all of this information right now. But the bottom line is, they've ticked off so many people and have such a bad rep that soon enough, there'll be nowhere left for them to hide, regardless of what I say or don't say.....


quiksilver

Nov 9, 2004, 6:43 PM
Post #195 of 2276 (29469 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Oh, and as far as the full "story" is concerned, as someone else had asked..... Basically what happened was this:

I was contacted the day before my dive was scheduled and advised that the jump was being cancelled due to weather. Actually, the weather the next day turned out to be great so I called up the skydiving reservations office (that would be Skyride) and asked if we were still on, being that the weather wasn't an issue. It was then that I was advised that none of the planes on site were operational and that this was the REAL problem (not the weather).
So, I went back to everyone in my group, explained the situation and basically we all decided that due to the fact that we were not given an honest answer in the first place and that when we finally DID get the honest answer we didn't like what we heard, we decided not to pursue skydiving with this particular company. At that time, I was still under the impression that the "company" and the "drop zone" were one and the same. Now I know better.
So to continue, when I called Skyride back to advise that we did not want to reschedule our jump but instead wanted our money back, THAT'S when I was given the whole song and dance about their "no-refund" policy, which obviously no one ever told me about PRIOR to my reservations purchase, otherwise I would certainly not have chosen to give them any of my money.
Then, when I told the woman in the reservations office that it was entirely unfair that we were all out a total of $1300, she advised that I take it up with a woman named "Gena" in the corporate office. So after several weeks of back and forth with that (due to the fact that they gave me the wrong address to send my complaint letter to....TWICE), my refund request was declined. Ironically, on the same day my refund request was denied, I got a call back from the reservations agent who originally sold me the "jump slots". She advised that i would be getting a check in the mail the vry next week and that she knew the owners. After assuring me I would get a full refund, (on more than one occasion) and dodging my phonecall for weeks when it was obvious that no such check was going to be produced, I came to find out that she "no longer worked" there. How convenient. Again, in a bizarre twist of fate, the very same day that I was informed that this girl (Sarah) no longer was employed with the company, Gena called me back and basically had the nerve to reprimand me for "going through Sarah" to resolve an issue which was already "case closed". I frostily informed her that Sarah had advised me that in fact she (Gena) had given me the "wrong info" and that I would be getting a check in the mail directly. Of course, this fell on deaf ears and Gena simply informed me that she was not responsible for the misinformation that someone else gave to me. When I pressed the issue, and outright asked Gena for the reason that my request was denied, she would not give me an answer. She also advised that a "panel" had made the decision (which I find highly dubious). When I asked if I could speak to one of the "panel" members, of course my request was declined and I was told that this is the "end of the line". The woman all but hung up on me and it was at this point that I had just had it.....

Honestly, the $200 on my end is a loss but at this point it's not even about that. It's about my little brother, who paid $400 for him and his buddy to go (He's in college still and money doesn't grow on trees. You know how the college years are), and it's about my friends and other customers of this company and what they've lost. We've all been given the run around and it just needs to be dealt with.

Oh, and I was supposed to jump out of Perkasie, PA at a place called Skydive Pennridge. All these names are so damn confusing. First they were calling it Skydive Perkasie, then they were calling it Pennridge.... Whatever. I never even ended up going so I never even saw the site but I do know that all the people (to my knowledge) that I spoke with were in GA. Although to be honest, seeing as this company it so shady, I could've been talking to "Bob in Honduras" for all I know.
Anyway, that's about it. Hope the full, unabridged version of the story put a few questions to rest. The whole process of rehashing it all is a bit draining but I'd much rather rehash that leave suspicions floating around (ie- suspicions that maybe I am making up the story, that I am not really who I say I am, etc.)


One last thing---- ANY DIVERS IN GEORGIA WHO HAVE HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH THESE PEOPLE< PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME. THE LOCAL REPORTER I CONTACTED IN GA IS STILL INTERESTED IN THE STORY BUT WOULD IDEALLY LIKE TO GET SOME LOCAL PEOPLE INVOLVED AS WELL AND UNFORTUNATELY I AM LOCATED IN NJ. (THOUGH I'LL FLY DOWN THERE IF I REALLY NEED TO.)

THANKS ALL....


Greene  (D 5835)

Nov 9, 2004, 6:51 PM
Post #196 of 2276 (29462 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Keep it up Miss Lady Smile

Do contact the United States Parachute Association at http://www.uspa.org Speak with Chris Needles.

Also have your lawyer go to http://www.makeithappen.com

Good luck.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Nov 9, 2004, 8:11 PM
Post #197 of 2276 (29433 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
So, I went back to everyone in my group, explained the situation and basically we all decided that due to the fact that we were not given an honest answer in the first place and that when we finally DID get the honest answer we didn't like what we heard, we decided not to pursue skydiving with this particular company. At that time, I was still under the impression that the "company" and the "drop zone" were one and the same. Now I know better.
So to continue, when I called Skyride back to advise that we did not want to reschedule our jump but instead wanted our money back, THAT'S when I was given the whole song and dance about their "no-refund" policy, which obviously no one ever told me about PRIOR to my reservations purchase

I worry for your situation. From a legal standpoint, you may be in bad shape, given that you voluntarily chose to stop dealing with what you correctly read as an unethical company. A wise choice, esp when thinking they were the skydiving company. Who would trust their lives to scumbags. But no refund policies do stand up - it's now all about whether or not they need to tell you for it to count.

Unfortuntely, most of what they do is shady, not illegal, so I would be surprised if your lawyer would pursue a class action. I hope you do get your refund, and can jump elsewhere sometime soon.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 9, 2004, 8:24 PM
Post #198 of 2276 (29429 views)
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     Re: [Greene] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I may be mistaken but if a company is ripping people off accross state lines (alabama, georgia, wherever) then that is a federal offense and falls within the jurisdiction of the FBI. The have divisions for everything. Tell them SkyRide is terrorizing the skydiving industry and they might all get involved.

The FBI may be the way to go. As well as a call to CNN to see if they are interested in the story.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 9, 2004, 8:27 PM
Post #199 of 2276 (29425 views)
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     Re: [Greene] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Simply "time" alone may get rid of this problem. If SkyRide sells a tandem and the tandem gets injured then the DZ is protected by the waiver. Skyride isn't. They are also liable and do not have protection under a waiver.


Greene  (D 5835)

Nov 9, 2004, 8:36 PM
Post #200 of 2276 (29418 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Not true.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 9, 2004, 9:00 PM
Post #201 of 2276 (29087 views)
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     Re: [Greene] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I guess I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that without a waiver an injured jumper can sue the DZ, tandem instructor, gear manufacturer and anyone else directly involved with the jump. Including SkyRide since they selected the DZ and booked and sold the reservation. How is SkyRide exempt without a waiver? They are the ones receiving the money from the tandem student. You can't sign a waiver over the phone or internet.


slug  (B License)

Nov 9, 2004, 10:59 PM
Post #202 of 2276 (29072 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride?skyride [In reply to]  

Hi lady

Sorry to hear about your challenge with the business folks from "Take you for a ride" this time they may have messed with the wrong person.

IMO Contacting USPA will be good for your paper trail and save a lawyer some time but action wise don't expect to much. Just business. You'll be able to tell whats up when they repond to your letter.

The person at "make it happen" IMO could be a valuable resource of information for any civil or criminal action involving "Take you for a ride". aka skyride contact her and see if she's available. IMO any info from her will be solid.

Good luck, have patience, don't give up.

R.I.P.


WFFC  (D 24610)

Nov 10, 2004, 12:17 AM
Post #203 of 2276 (29063 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How is SkyRide exempt without a waiver?

It would fall in on how the agreement with the DZ is written - e.g. The DZ accepts the risk for transaction...la de da...


quiksilver

Nov 10, 2004, 8:12 PM
Post #204 of 2276 (28991 views)
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     Re: [WFFC] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

First of all, I'd just like to say "thank you" again, for all of your good advice. I really do appreciate it.

All noted regarding "makeithappen" and even contacting the FBI. I never thought of that but you know, since mail fraud is a federal offense, I see no reason why they couldn't get involved. In terms of the no-refund policy, I was definitely informed of this AFTER the fact (ie- after my money order was received by Skyride) and since I was informed by Gena that they don't "tape" their customer service calls for quality control (big surprise there, and big MISTAKE on her part for letting me know), they don't have leg to stand on. In no way, shape or form did they advise of their supposed no-refund policy either verbally, in writing, or even via email. The way they conduct business is really a joke. So I am almost 100% sure that the situation can only be viewed in my favor.

Nothing against GA residents but man, some of them are slow as anything. The detective who is looking into the situation for me down there takes like 4 days to return my calls and most of the time I just get his voicemail: "Hey, this is < >. Just leave me a message an' I'll git back wit' you." (mispellings were deliberate. LOL!) I know it's not the nicest thing to say but I have just lost all patience with this entire situation. And that's one thing I cannot do if I want to ultimately achieve the desired results....
Anyway, will continue to check in every so often with updates. I will actually be in France for the next few days so wish me a safe flight!!!!

~Claire


slug  (B License)

Nov 10, 2004, 10:14 PM
Post #205 of 2276 (28973 views)
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     Re: [quiksilver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 
>>Nothing against GA residents but man, some of them are slow as anything. The detective who is looking into the situation for me down there takes like 4 days to return my calls and most of the time I just get his voicemail: "Hey, this is < >. Just leave me a message an' I'll git back wit' you." (mispellings were deliberate. LOL!) I know it's not the nicest thing to say but I have just lost all patience with this entire situation. And that's one thing I cannot do if I want to ultimately achieve the desired results....>>

Patience is what you'll need. The detective in Ga is not slow he's subtle. In a month or two you'll understand he's giving you the "I'll look into it and get back with you". You will grow very old waiting on that guy. He's very busy.

Be persistant and patient, it took how may years to trip up the telemarker? IMO listen to "make it happen".

R.i.P.


Chiquita  (D License)

Nov 11, 2004, 12:27 AM
Post #206 of 2276 (28961 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

You can see who the owner is here Check domain ownership , to see who owns the website. Just type in skydivegear and selelct .com.


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 11, 2004, 5:39 AM
Post #207 of 2276 (28934 views)
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     Re: [Chiquita] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Yeah, I did a whois lookup to find out who registered the site. But that's all it tells you, not who owns the company. He may design websites for customers that have no affiliation to his many other websites.

Dave


stratostar  (Student)

Nov 11, 2004, 6:46 AM
Post #208 of 2276 (28911 views)
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     Re: [wildblue] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

The unhappy people that showed up on a busy sat.


packerboy  (C 34282)

Nov 11, 2004, 8:10 AM
Post #209 of 2276 (28887 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Is there a list of dropzones kicking around that accept their certificates??

Why doesn't everyone that is that pissed off about these guys "and it sounds like alot of people" call every dropzone on the list and explain your distaste for Skyrides shady business practices. Then e-mail them. Then fax them. Then send them a letter.

Then do it again next week. Everyone. Apparantly there are alot of you out there.

Maybe, just maybe, one or two of the dropzones will get sick enough of dealing with it, that they would rather stop accepting the certificates than deal with all the harrasment.

Punch them where it hurts... in the moneybags!

Hey you never know what could happen.... but it'd have to be alot of people calling to make it work.

Just a thought.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 11, 2004, 8:53 AM
Post #210 of 2276 (28875 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Cary does'nt design the sites... thats done by: http://www.drawn2design.net. They advertize freelance work with lots of pointers going to ASC and Soaringsports Crazy


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 11, 2004, 9:53 AM
Post #211 of 2276 (28875 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Wonder who actually partakes in copyright infringement by stealing logos and graphics from other websites. Wouldn't expect that from a real website designer.

Dave


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Nov 12, 2004, 6:43 AM
Post #212 of 2276 (28786 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

skydived19006 posted some interesting input in this thread. Cool


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 12, 2004, 7:31 AM
Post #213 of 2276 (28762 views)
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     Re: [slotperfect] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
skydived19006 posted some interesting input in this thread. Cool

I like it! All the DZs that don't like Skyride and want to see them gone are going to have to band together somehow. Get everyone on the same page and do something.

If you're taking Skyride certificates, STOP! I realize that Skyride helps bring more tandem and student business for some DZs, but it is set up in an unfair way and is being controlled by the wrong people in it solely for their own benefit with a "screw everybody else" attitude. Keep accepting the certificates, and you will eventually suffer a year or two later as Skyride opens their own DZ in your area and tries to drive you out of business. Think about it.

Blue Skies
Billy


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Nov 12, 2004, 7:55 AM
Post #214 of 2276 (28747 views)
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     Re: What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Sorry if this has been discussed - the idea popped into my head after a long absence from the thread.

Has anyone thought of contacting skyride's internet service providers or whoever hosts their websites? I'm sure they would be rather interested to hear how they were hosting copyrighted material that had been stolen from other sites.

There's a long list of websites pulled by their providers for breaching copyright.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Nov 12, 2004, 7:56 AM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 12, 2004, 10:50 AM
Post #215 of 2276 (28685 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

If you guys are truely interested in getting rid of Skyride then also remember not to associate with Chuting Star Rigging Loft or Skydivegear.com since they are both closely associated with ASC/SkyRide. Make sure you explain why you are not going to do business with either of them also. Unsure


douwanto  (D 23851)

Nov 12, 2004, 4:37 PM
Post #216 of 2276 (28616 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Alot of their practices are against the law. Those who have been duped should contact the
Attorney General of Georgia

http://www.state.ga.us/ago/



Angelic


(This post was edited by douwanto on Nov 12, 2004, 4:38 PM)


chutingstar  (D 19956)

Nov 12, 2004, 7:51 PM
Post #217 of 2276 (28573 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If you guys are truely interested in getting rid of Skyride then also remember not to associate with Chuting Star Rigging Loft or Skydivegear.com since they are both closely associated with ASC/SkyRide. Make sure you explain why you are not going to do business with either of them also. Unsure

Yes, please stop doing business with me. I could use a little vacation from the work since I tend to work 15-hour days, 7 days a week. But please don't explain why you are not doing business with me, I'm really not interested nor do I have time to listen to those type of comments.

But for those who want high-quality rigging work and/or high-quality gear at fair prices or even one heck of an AFF/Tandem Instructor, I'll see you tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day...

Mike


marks  (D 22296)

Nov 12, 2004, 8:03 PM
Post #218 of 2276 (28566 views)
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     Re: [chutingstar] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

mikey!... whats up? hmm didnt think i would post in this thread... but.....

you got my buissness.. no need to stressWink


slug  (B License)

Nov 12, 2004, 8:10 PM
Post #219 of 2276 (28563 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Hi Phree

I'd rather reply to your post than the post from your link.

Interesting link. The gear store have a legal page thats as long as a jump waiver. They also warn anyone that uses their intellectual property, pictures etc with legal action.

The guy's in the loft are very busy jumping their ass off and packing a bunch of rigs. surprised they took the time to respond to your post.

They won't have any problem staying in business just like the telemarketing industry. Magazine prizes and the big $$$$ in Nigeria.


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

R.I.P.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 11:39 AM
Post #220 of 2276 (28524 views)
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     Post deleted by Levin [In reply to]

 


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Nov 13, 2004, 12:21 PM
Post #221 of 2276 (28513 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Any reason for that personal attack?


Levin  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 1:12 PM
Post #222 of 2276 (28502 views)
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     Re: [SkymonkeyONE] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i think my reasons is obvious but i will delete it and apologize.


edit: edit to delete text. most of what i said here wan't any nicer than the post i deleted above. edited this instead of deleting entirely so that the apology can remain.


(This post was edited by Levin on Nov 13, 2004, 2:08 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 4:59 PM
Post #223 of 2276 (28453 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Attacking someone elses livelyhood is kinda low Phree.....What next? The company that sells ASC their Jet Fuel? The power company?


Bad form.


Go after the company that is vilolating the law. No one else. And do it for what laws their breaking, no other reason, or you're just contributing to the problems of this overly litigious society.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 5:44 PM
Post #224 of 2276 (28445 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i disagree. if you know someone is up to no good and you associate with them anyway then that makes you to some degree guilty by association. and i think that applys to some to degree to every skydiver that jumps at that dropzone that knows ASC's connection to SkyRide and knows what SkyRide is all about. may sound a little silly but that's the way I feel.


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 6:25 PM
Post #225 of 2276 (28436 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Ever been the friend of someone who speeds, or had a DUI, or has been to jail?

Why would you want to take food out of someones mouth that is working hard and doing no wrong.

Quote:
and i think that applys to some to degree to every skydiver that jumps at that dropzone

Where ever you jump, stay there.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 6:53 PM
Post #226 of 2276 (27864 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Ever been the friend of someone who speeds, or had a DUI, or has been to jail?

speeding is not the same. DUI doesn't count. I would never be guilty by association of a drunk driver because if someone is too drunk to drive I'm not getting in the car with them. Jail depends on what they went to jail for. If someone murders somebody and you know about and don't say anything then you are both going to jail. association.

In reply to:
Why would you want to take food out of someones mouth that is working hard and doing no wrong.

that is exactly what SkyRide does. They take the food out of other people's mouths and grab a few crumbs for themselves while they are doing it. Since Spaceland accepts their certificates and Skydive Houston does not, anybody who calls SkyRide is informed that Spaceland is the only DZ in Houston. That is taking food out of SDH's mouth. I called these fuckers the other day to see what they were about for myself. They are dishonest and very elusive. And the fact that SkyRide is working very hard at it is the very reason why something has got to be done fast. SkyRide doesn't give a shit about skydivers or the industry. They care about one thing; money. That's why they are a PARASITE. And anybody that knowingly supports them whether it's Chuting Star Rigging Loft, Skydivegear.com, drawn2design.net, Atlanta Skydiving Center, the jumpers that jump there, and/or DZs that are accepting the certifcates are all part of a parasite support structure.

In reply to:
Where ever you jump, stay there.

Don't worry. I don't get out of the state much. But I don't have to with such a great thing as dropzone.com to voice my opinion. I'll can you this. My DZ does not accept these parasitic certificates.


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 13, 2004, 8:29 PM
Post #227 of 2276 (27843 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Don't worry. I don't get out of the state much. But I don't have to with such a great thing as dropzone.com to voice my opinion. I'll can you this. My DZ does not accept these parasitic certificates.

My apologies.... I shouldn't be rash in my statements. I have no particular love of Skyride, nor do I dislike them particularly. I just see them and the businesses you've condemned to sink with them as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them. There have been some legal transgressions, yet rather than address those specific issues people seem to prefer the witch-hunt.

Chuting Star, while I've not done any business with them seems to be one of the largest, most informative, and full service lofts I've yet seen in this business. In fact I'd say they rival manufacturers, which is a good thing as they are more likely to be impartial about gear. I can't think of another loft quite as big.

In any event, as I have no stake in this, have repeated my views and advice a few times, and am not likely to be swayed by a mob without the light of some more factual evidence of wrong doing, I'm going to end my participation in this discussion.

CoolCoolCool


(This post was edited by diablopilot on Nov 13, 2004, 9:04 PM)
Attachments: argue.jpg (36.7 KB)


chopchop  (D 25001)

Nov 13, 2004, 9:01 PM
Post #228 of 2276 (27835 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I have no particular love of Skyride, nor do I dislike them particularly. I just see them and the businesses you've condemned to sink with them as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them. There have been some legal transgressions, yet rather than address those specific issues people seem to prefer the witch hunt.

Ditto.. but spell-checked.. Wink

Although not spelled very well, JP, very well put.

And there is some old saying in the back of my head when I read this thread.. something about "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Bottom line is while they may be bending some rules, they seem to be playing the game very well.. good on them. Flame away. Tongue


JDBoston  (D 26450)

Nov 14, 2004, 7:44 AM
Post #229 of 2276 (27796 views)
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     Re: [chopchop] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Bottom line is while they may be bending some rules, they seem to be playing the game very well.. good on them. Flame away.
___________________________________________________

The game of lying, cheating, and stealing, you mean? Yeah, I really admire people who play that game well.

Kind of like the folks who call old ladies up and talk them into investing in BS stuff where they lose all their money. Someone might be able to run a business like that on the right side of the law, but they'd still be a edited by Slotperfect.

The practices described in this thread are NOT "good hard-nosed competition" - they're sneaky, deceptive, and wrong, and I think it's clear to everyone that they are not isolated incidents, but rather the MO of the people running the business. What part of that strikes you as worth defending?

Joe


(This post was edited by slotperfect on Nov 14, 2004, 3:29 PM)


chopchop  (D 25001)

Nov 14, 2004, 1:43 PM
Post #230 of 2276 (27757 views)
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     Re: [JDBoston] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I am not defending their tactics. I don't think they should be as misleading as they are. But as JP said. if they used their own images, represented themselves as a resellerworking with contractors instead of trying to give the impression that the Skyride network of dropzones as all one company, and got rid of that skydive association page where they pretend to be an authority of some sort, I would have no prooblem at all with their business model.

As a business owner with multiple resellers making nice margins on my products and services, I don't look at my resellers at parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride, I look at them as my marketing partners. There is a cost to what these people provide. There are costs to setting up and maintaining websites, phone systems, having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable, other marketing to keep the phones ringing and keeping up with the paper generated. How is Skyride so different?


Levin  (D License)

Nov 14, 2004, 6:33 PM
Post #231 of 2276 (27712 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I just see them....as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them.

maybe it's a job they shouldn't be doing

In reply to:
people seem to prefer the witch-hunt

technically since the witch has been identified the hunt is over. now it's just a matter of figuring out how to burn 'em at the stake.

In reply to:
Chuting Star, while I've not done any business with them seems to be one of the largest, most informative, and full service lofts I've yet seen in this business. In fact I'd say they rival manufacturers,

while they may be knowledgable, a big business and perform great services for their customers that doesn't mean they have the best interest of the sport at heart. if they are so big and great then they shouldn't have any problem disassociating themselves from a parasite.

funny attachment but i disagree with that too. the internet allows for arguments that are all to often unproductive to become structured debates for a much larger audience.


noctralucent  (D 30762)

Nov 14, 2004, 7:14 PM
Post #232 of 2276 (27696 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 

My friends and Instructors at ASC are excellent bad ass skydivers they are always very helpful nice people. You can not assume that those of us fun jumpers here are somehow harmful to the sport of skydiving. Chuting Star Rigging loft is awsome you can't connect us fun fumpers and our rigger to this.


Greene  (D 5835)

Nov 14, 2004, 8:33 PM
Post #233 of 2276 (27678 views)
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     Re: [noctralucent] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Nobody ever said they were not nice people.

No one ever said students and jumpers were not nice people.

What everyone is saying, we want them to advertise the DZ's THAT THEY OWN.!

Not advertise in areas they do not belong.

Check out some Ohio DZ's like, Cincinnati skydiving.com, Ind, Ill, Calif, Mich on and on and on.

Do a search on here for skyride.

Get informed NOW.


slug  (B License)

Nov 15, 2004, 1:33 AM
Post #234 of 2276 (27648 views)
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     Re: [Greene] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Nobody ever said they were not nice people.

No one ever said students and jumpers were not nice people.

What everyone is saying, we want them to advertise the DZ's THAT THEY OWN.!

Not advertise in areas they do not belong.

Check out some Ohio DZ's like, Cincinnati skydiving.com, Ind, Ill, Calif, Mich on and on and on.

Do a search on here for skyride.

Get informed NOW.

Hi Greene

The guy's got 12 jumps (approx) and you expect him to become informed he's to busy jumping for that stuff. He'll probably be gone before he does the research.

I'm guessing he's not driving a xtra 250 miles to drive past the local DZ's to jump with his friends. If he does the research you suggest maybe he'll find some new friends closer to where he lives.

R.I.P.


mgerra28  (D 19108)

Nov 15, 2004, 6:55 AM
Post #235 of 2276 (27593 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Yes i agree these tactics suck. I believe the owner of chuting star rigging, manages ASC. Maybe you should all call mike up there. I remember a guy calling from down here in Tallahassee asking if he was the closest Dropzone to Tallahassee and the DZ said yes and gave directions to get to Cedartown.


(This post was edited by mgerra28 on Nov 15, 2004, 7:07 AM)


Sabre2th

Nov 15, 2004, 9:23 AM
Post #236 of 2276 (27543 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I jump at ASC, and use the rigging loft also. Chuting Star does an awsome job. I've never gotten the "we're just a buisness" vibe from them. Very nice people, and very good at what they do. Go after the real problem, that being Skyride. I don't like them either, but I don't go after everyone and everything that is "associated" with them. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but how does skyride benefit from the rigging loft? As far as I know, there is no connection between the two.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Nov 15, 2004, 10:23 AM
Post #237 of 2276 (27502 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

  The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

What do you think?
Martin Myrtle
Air Capital Drop Zone
Wichita Kansas


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 15, 2004, 10:52 AM
Post #238 of 2276 (27479 views)
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     Re: [Sabre2th] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Lets keep this on topic.This thread started about Skyride.This is not or should not be about the people at any one DZ.It should be about the Skyride.It's a great idea until you screw the people that are accepting your certificates by opening a DZ right next to them.It's up to the DZO's to stop this be not taking the certificates.


Sabre2th

Nov 15, 2004, 11:11 AM
Post #239 of 2276 (27465 views)
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     Re: [CSpenceFLY] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Exactly what I wanted anyway, just replying to the earlier post to "stop doing business at the loft, because they may be associated with skyride"....

Now, back on topic!!Cool


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 15, 2004, 11:55 AM
Post #240 of 2276 (27452 views)
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     Re: [skydived19006] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

What do you think?
Martin Myrtle
Air Capital Drop Zone
Wichita Kansas

If you think accepting the certificates is a good thing, look for Skyride to open up a DZ near you and start taking your business away in the next few years.

First, they drove the old Pell City DZ out of business and forced the owner to sell to ASC. Then, they opened Skydive Pennridge near Philadelphia and is trying to siphon off business from Cross Keys, and now there's a new ASC clone somewhere in Illinois, I think. Their goal is to hog all the internet traffic to their own network, and leave the legitimate DZ's out in the cold. How is that going to be good for you?

What I'd like to see is USPA start up their own version of Skyride to cover all of the general membership DZs. Not exactly going to be a popular move because I know of a couple of non-USPA DZ's that are very good places to jump, and one of them is owned by a national director, but it would still be a hell of a lot more fairer than the putrid shit that Skyride does. The commission USPA generates from their certificates would then go toward reducing individual skydiver membership fees as well as pumping up the war chest for DZ legal aid where airport access issues are concerned. Sure, they'd have to spend money to build up the capability to control the internet traffic, but it would pay off eventually, and keep ASC from running roughshod over the rest of us honest people.

I am one of those who would, more than anything, like to see Skyride and ASC (both in Cedartown and Pell City) run into the ground, or at least kept in check and forced to play by the rules.

Blue Skies
Billy


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Nov 15, 2004, 1:32 PM
Post #241 of 2276 (27414 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 

"If you think accepting the certificates is a good thing, look for Skyride to open up a DZ near you and start taking your business away in the next few years."



I was just “covering bases”, obviously more than a few DZs do think that accepting Skyride Certificates is a “good idea” as they do it.

I did some “leg work” and found out that the idea of USPA increasing their web presence with paid sponsorship on the search engines came up at the last BOD meeting. Jan Meyer apparently brought up the subject and it received good support, at least form those on the board with some knowledge of the internet.
I hadn’t personally considered having USPA act as a new booking agency, my thought was simply to help the customer get directly in contact with the DZ, and maybe to help them to tell the difference. Obviously USPA does not support the “virtual” drop zones that Skyride has running on the internet (I would assume).
You have a very valid point about Skyride going into direct competition by opening their own DZs, but how is that any different than if I were to open a drop zone in your backyard (other than their dishonest and illegal activities). That said I don’t think I personally have much to worry about in Kansas. Nobody and I mean nobody makes their living form skydiving alone in Kansas. I’m not saying that it can’t be done I’ve seen it done in the past. If you are the DZO, Aircraft owner, do 90% of the tandems personally, maintain your AC poorly, and have an extremely low standard of living, you can make a “living” skydiving in Kansas.

Martin


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 2:47 PM
Post #242 of 2276 (27364 views)
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     Re: [chopchop] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't think they should be as misleading as they are.

they shouldn't be misleading at all.

In reply to:
I don't look at my resellers at parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride

feel free to quote me on that.

In reply to:
having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable

their phones are answered by dishonest, elusive and ignorant people. And ignorance is a deliberate part of their MO.

In reply to:
There are costs to setting up and maintaining websites, phone systems, having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable, other marketing to keep the phones ringing and keeping up with the paper generated. How is Skyride so different?

the bulk of their cost is going to be in legal fees and litigation if they are not careful.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 2:57 PM
Post #243 of 2276 (27357 views)
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     Re: [noctralucent] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
My friends and Instructors at ASC are excellent bad ass skydivers they are always very helpful nice people.

i have no doubt they are as are most all people in this sport.

In reply to:
You can not assume that those of us fun jumpers here are somehow harmful to the sport of skydiving

yes i can

In reply to:
Chuting Star Rigging loft is awsome you can't connect us fun fumpers and our rigger to this

yes i can.

The owner of ASC and SkyRide is a parasite and is one in the same. If you know what he is about and continue to support his businesses and put your money in his pocket then you are supporting a parasite. hence you are part of a parasite support structure.

if you truly care about the future of this sport then you will disassociate yourself from that parasite. If he loses his support structure then he loses much of his ability to infect our sport.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:01 PM
Post #244 of 2276 (27354 views)
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     Re: [slug] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The guy's got 12 jumps (approx) and you expect him to become informed

his jump numbers are not relevant to his ability to inform himself on current issues.

In reply to:
he's to busy jumping for that stuff

not likely this time of year.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:10 PM
Post #245 of 2276 (27347 views)
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     Re: [mgerra28] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I remember a guy calling from down here in Tallahassee asking if he was the closest Dropzone to Tallahassee and the DZ said yes and gave directions to get to Cedartown.

cyberskydive witnessed ASC taking down signs for Skydive Monroe and replacing them with signs for ASC. If that is the kind of business practices that Chutingstar manages then they are no doubt just as bad as the parasite they associate themselves with. Like I said before Chutingstar may provide great rigging services and treat their customers well but that does not mean they give a damn about what is best for the sport. A rigger can provide a good service and still not care about anything but the money.

In reply to:
don't sweat the small stuff, in fact don't sweat at all,, you get smelly!!

i would rather be smelly from sweat from working to defend my sport from a parasite than smell like I got shit on by a parasite because I did nothing to try and stop it. ask yourself which is worse.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:28 PM
Post #246 of 2276 (27336 views)
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     Re: [Sabre2th] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Go after the real problem, that being Skyride.

ASC and SkyRide are one in the same. The are both the real problem. ASC's business tactics were questionable, immorral & unethical before SkyRide came into the picture. SkyRide is a direct result of where ASC's unethical business practices were going. So what's next? Multiple turbine carnival like tandem mills moving into your area is what's next. Owned by a parasite that will stoop to any immorral and unethical business tactic he can to force the other DZ's out of business. In the end you will have a sport dominated by tandem mill DZ's that don't give a damn about anything but money and the owner of all of this will be USPA. I suggest you do some research, take a few steps back and get a better view of the bigger picture and disassociate yourself from this parasite.

In reply to:
I don't go after everyone and everything that is "associated" with them

think of it as a pre-emptive strike. remove his support structure and you limit his ability to further infect the sport.

In reply to:
skyride benefit from the rigging loft? As far as I know, there is no connection between the two

the rigging loft is part of the DZ. The DZ is associated with SkyRide. The DZ and SkyRide are owned by the same person. Money from Skyride, the DZ, the rigging loft and the jumpers go into to this parasite's pocket and further his ability to expand his infection on the rest of the industry.


dropzonefool

Nov 15, 2004, 3:40 PM
Post #247 of 2276 (27323 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

OK, I just read this entire thread and maybe I missed it where it was explained why they are so bad! Many DZo's will lie and let a newbie drive to there DZ and pass right by there competitor. I was so curious I googled 1800skyride, there websight states the tandem jump is $165, I found that un-offensive, so I called them and they confirmed it was $165 and tried to talk me in to buying an additional certificate to give to a friend so I would not have to jump alone, another marketing sale. I hung up on the guy and still do not understand WHY? ... Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?

I didn't post in this form to flame anyone and certainly hope my post doesn't get taken as another attack, I just don't get it? HelpSmileSmile
Will someone explane in plane text to me, why I should be offended because this is bad for the comunity?


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:44 PM
Post #248 of 2276 (27322 views)
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     Re: [skydived19006] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

I don't like the idea of any kind of middleman. Nobody asked for a middleman and no one wants one imposed on them. But if there had to be one then I would prefer dropzone.com over the USPA. SkyRide discriminates between those that do and do not accept their certifcates. USPA discriminates between member and non-member DZ's. In fact if you look at USPA and SkyRide they have simillarities. Both impose themselves on you and the sport. Both do not acknowledge the existance of those that do not particpate in their programs. The difference is the USPA is legitimate and has the best interest of the sport at heart and uses it revinue to protect and further improve our sport. SkyRide is very shady and doesn't care about the sport. They only care about dollars. Dropzone.com on the other hand is unbiased and doesn't discrimate between anybody. If SkyRide can make money doing what they are doing then Sangiro can too. Alot more money than what he makes off of little red stars. I'm sure Sangiro realizes this and I bet he has already spent some time pondering the idea. Again I don't like the idea of a middle man at all but if there needs to be one then I think Sangiro is the most logical choice. He's a good honest person and I am sure in this case good would prevail over evil. SKYRIDENCE!


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:53 PM
Post #249 of 2276 (27317 views)
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     Re: [CSpenceFLY] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Lets keep this on topic.This thread started about Skyride.

It is on topic. It started about SkyRide and is still about SkyRide. The thread is titled "What can we do about SkyRide?" Fully identifying the problem is part of finding a solution.

In reply to:
It's up to the DZO's to stop this be not taking the certificates.

That is logical assumption. Think about for a second and you will realize it doesn't quit work like that. If DZ 'A' is taking the certificates and DZ 'B' is trying to do the right thing and not take them then DZ 'B' is shooting themselves in the foot while leaving no reason for DZ 'A' to quit taking them. You have to look at this whole thing from jumper's point of view, as well as the DZO's, the 1st time customer's and the parasite that is running the whole thing.


teason  (D 18902)

Nov 15, 2004, 3:56 PM
Post #250 of 2276 (27345 views)
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     Re: [chopchop] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride

I did, remember me? remember they stole my website? Do I really have to keep posting this? It isn't bending rules, it's breaking them.

Quote:
How is Skyride so different?
They are different because they redirect web traffic to themselves. They are different because they cash in on the marketing done by others. They are different because they do not enhance the service or broaden markets or benifit consumers in ANY way.

My DZ happens to have an agreement with a canadian company that books ballon rides, kyaking, hang gliding and other adventure sports. They allow us to reach a markets we couldn't reach on our own. They broaden the scope of our exposure, marketing to like minded indiviuals who may not have considered skydiving. They earn the commisions we pay. They have given us TV exposure, brochures, and grassroots marketing in the form of newsletters etc.

Skyride profits from the people who happen across them while doing a search on the net.


BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!

Mad


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 4:13 PM
Post #251 of 2276 (28585 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I can't possibly imagine how you could have read this entire thread and not gotten anything out of it.

Yah many DZ's lie but they don't need help from a thrid party in doing it.

check out this website http://www.skydivinghouston.com This dropzone is fictitous and does not exist. If you call the number on the site you get SkyRide. Try calling them back and asking specifically where this DZ is. Had you purchased that tandem certificate you would have been sent to Skydive Spaceland and told they were the only DZ in Houston despite Skydive Houston having been operating in Houston longer than anyone.

SkyRide also steals images and copyrighted material from other real sites to use on their fictitous sites.

Do a search on rec.skydiving or dropzone.com for ASC looking specifically for infomation on them a few years ago before SkyRide came into the picture and you will find that ASC has been involved in questionable business practices for sometime. In fact Skydiving Magazine ran an article on them and their questionable websites a few years ago. This is not a new problem. It's an old problem that has elevated to a much higher level.


piisfish

Nov 15, 2004, 4:18 PM
Post #252 of 2276 (28578 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
SkyRide also steals images and copyrighted material from other real sites to use on their fictitous sites.

what can technically be done against it ?? I happen to know a couple of europeans on several pics and could forward them the info.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 4:47 PM
Post #253 of 2276 (28560 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In fact Skydiving Magazine ran an article on them and their questionable websites a few years ago

The article appeared Issue #243: October 2001: 09/21/2001 of Skydiving Magazine. The article is titled "Georgia's DZ's Promotional Efforts Attract Criticism". Back issues can be ordered at http://www.skydivingmagazine.com


sid  (D 20135)

Nov 15, 2004, 4:51 PM
Post #254 of 2276 (28557 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

they also advertise $165 tandems, as a previous poster stated, yet - you try and buy one for that price! In their first year of operation we started accepting their vouchers at a dz I worked at, luckily we didn't take many. However, they were paying us $175 for each one we accepted! Wait, all we would have to do is buy 100 vouchers from them at $165, redeem them for $175 and we've made a grand without doing the tandems, DOH!
So I got somebody to call them, and sure enough a tandem was $165, but with the gear rental and first jump course it was ACTUALLY more like $245. This is called bait and switch and is illegal in every state as far as I know.
As Tim alluded, the basic business plan is sound, there are other companies out there that resell certificates and do it very well, what they don't do is steal from fellow skydivers (whatever way you slice it Tim, what they did with your website was just fucking theft). What they don't do is advertise one price then load it with extras without which you can't possibly do the tandem.
Stop looking at what they founded their business model on, and look at what they are actually doing. Stealing peoples websites, stealing copyrighted images, lying to the public, bait and switch advertising and I'll just bet their feet stink and they don't love Jeebus!


dropzonefool

Nov 15, 2004, 5:05 PM
Post #255 of 2276 (28545 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Thank you very much!!!!!!! I just finished visiting the link. I saw Olav's photoShocked, and I think the entire sight was bullshit.Crazy There is already a skydive houston, I do not know of any DZ that calls themselvs skydiv"ING" houston. I'm starting to see what all you guys are posting about. I kinda pissed about it. I have friends at Skydive Houston, I however am not surprized by Spaceland buying in to it, I have known for some time.
Are there anymore links about skyride?
Is there anyone out there who has compiled a list of all the DZ's which do bussiness with them.


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Nov 15, 2004, 5:11 PM
Post #256 of 2276 (28537 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Are there anymore links about skyride


here and here
and here
Thats just a start.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 15, 2004, 9:01 PM
Post #257 of 2276 (28491 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I however am not surprized by Spaceland buying in to it,

i'm not suprised either. but it goes back to what i said earlier about looking at it from the DZO's perspective. There are two DZ's in Houston. One takes the certifcates and one doesn't. That leaves alot of money on the table and the DZO's with a decision, would they rather be right or rich. Since Skydive Houston doesn't take them that leaves the other DZ with the opportunity to take advantage of 100% of the short term benefits of accepting the certifcates. Also take into consideration that SDH has $15 jumps all year and Spaceland is none to happy about that. Why wouldn't Spaceland accept the certificates (from a business owners persepctive). I'm pulling this number out of the air but say for example SkyRide generates 50 tandem customers a month. Spaceland has the opportunity to turn them all down or take them all. 50 tandems times $175 is $8750. Consider the small number of those that will make a second jump and possibly go thru the course. To ask Spaceland not to take the certificates is asking them to turn down about $120,000 a year. If it was your business would you turn that cash down? I think most would not. That's why the answer to this problem does not lye in asking the particpating dropzones not to particpate. Now one day when the ASC/SkyRide PARASITE has made enough money off the certificates to re-open Wharton then Spaceland will likely be thousands of dollars sorry that they ever partcipated.

edit: And also consider this. What if Spaceland did quit taking the certificates. That would cut SkyRide out of the 4th largest city in the country. If he gets cut out completely where do you think his next DZ is going. Currently it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. But there is an answer. We've just have to put our heads together and figure it out. Before it's too late.


(This post was edited by Levin on Nov 15, 2004, 9:13 PM)


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 15, 2004, 9:47 PM
Post #258 of 2276 (28478 views)
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     Facts and Fiction [In reply to]  

Facts:
www.skydiving.com Networksolutions-whois lookup
Registrant Contact:
CASC Inc. (Earl@skydivechattanooga.com)
555-555-5555 PO Box 440383 Kennesaw, GA 30160 US

As of now, this map on skydiving.com indicates DZ #108 in southern Minnesota is called Adventure Skydiving Minnesota-www.minnesotaskydiving.com
It states "This map is in United States Parachute Association Regions"
MINNESOTASKYDIVING.COM Networksolutions-whois lookup
Registrant Contact:
Cary Quattrocchi (pinksurge@hotmail.com)
5555555555 1732 Pamela Circle Marietta, GA 30060 US

The ONLY dropzone south of Skydive Hutchinson in Minnesota is Minnesota Skydivers Club, and this is confrmed on the USPA's web site.

The Rates page of minnesotaskydiving.com shows an image of a King Air. There is only one DZ in Minnesota that has a King Air. And its further North.

Several weeks ago, I sent an email to Minnesota Skydiver's Club notifying them of this redirection of their business. and the following was the reply I received
Quote:
Hi Jason, I send the owners of this website several e-mails asking them to correct it. At this point I don't think there is much that can be done to change it. Thanks! <<Name Deleted>>

My Question:
Why is everyone just rolling over and letting this happen? Are palms being greased with a little cash? This type of blatant misdirection of business, and fiction (see below) shouldn't be permitted.

Fiction:
But at least our Georgian friends have given us a little something to laugh at.
Skydivers cannot breath in clouds and rain

WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

Affected DZ's... TAKE AWAY THEIR DOMAIN NAMES!
I would suggest involving lawyers in this. But these guys are misusing some premium domain names. Take them back.
According to ICANN Domain Name disputes can be lodged for the following:
- domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
- no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
- domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.

In this case, the domain name is possibly similar, but they definitely have no Minnesota DZ's and the name was registered in bad faith by the ICANNs standards. (iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location


(This post was edited by BlueEyedMonster on Nov 15, 2004, 10:39 PM)


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 16, 2004, 6:13 AM
Post #259 of 2276 (28428 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
OK, I just read this entire thread and maybe I missed it where it was explained why they are so bad! Many DZo's will lie and let a newbie drive to there DZ and pass right by there competitor. I was so curious I googled 1800skyride, there websight states the tandem jump is $165, I found that un-offensive, so I called them and they confirmed it was $165 and tried to talk me in to buying an additional certificate to give to a friend so I would not have to jump alone, another marketing sale. I hung up on the guy and still do not understand WHY? ... Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?

You didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out more of their tactics... If you ask them if they are the DZ you have in mind, which is actually someone else's, they will say "yes that's us" and give you vague directions to their own DZ, or they will say, "oh that DZ's closed, but we're open", when in reality, the DZ in question is not closed! I could go on and on and on... but I don't have the time. Do the research. This bullshit goes back 4 to 5 years.

Blue Skies
Billy


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 16, 2004, 6:28 AM
Post #260 of 2276 (28419 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't like the idea of any kind of middleman. Nobody asked for a middleman and no one wants one imposed on them. But if there had to be one then I would prefer dropzone.com over the USPA. SkyRide discriminates between those that do and do not accept their certifcates. USPA discriminates between member and non-member DZ's. In fact if you look at USPA and SkyRide they have simillarities. Both impose themselves on you and the sport. Both do not acknowledge the existance of those that do not particpate in their programs. The difference is the USPA is legitimate and has the best interest of the sport at heart and uses it revinue to protect and further improve our sport. SkyRide is very shady and doesn't care about the sport. They only care about dollars. Dropzone.com on the other hand is unbiased and doesn't discrimate between anybody. If SkyRide can make money doing what they are doing then Sangiro can too. Alot more money than what he makes off of little red stars. I'm sure Sangiro realizes this and I bet he has already spent some time pondering the idea. Again I don't like the idea of a middle man at all but if there needs to be one then I think Sangiro is the most logical choice. He's a good honest person and I am sure in this case good would prevail over evil. SKYRIDENCE!

Good idea! You're right about USPA in that regard. That's why I knew some people would not like the idea of them running such a program. Even Mike Mullins had to win election to a national director slot via write-in ballots because USPA would not put him on the official ballot. Everybody knows the Mullins' DZ is not a USPA member DZ, but they are a lot of fun and do a great job.

Sangiro, how about it? Smile

A side note: Remember that National Skydiving Association that ASC/Skyride espouses? It's not a real organization... at least not yet... but who's to say it will never be a real organization? They have been growing and growing, setting up their own infrastructure with now 4 real DZs. They already own over 200 domain names. Do you see where this is going? The unfortunate thing is, I don't think there is a law saying only USPA can serve skydiving operations. It could take an act of Congress to make sure this NSA thing does not happen.

However, we all remember what Michael Hawkes did in Nevada when he had that Las Vegas DZ that would only allow tandems and skydivers who trained there to jump. He got the state legislature to pass a law saying only he could operate a DZ in the state. So watch out!

Bottom line is, get the bad guys and parasites OUT OF THIS SPORT, PERIOD! Mad

Billy


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Nov 16, 2004, 6:30 AM
Post #261 of 2276 (28414 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
they also advertise $165 tandems, as a previous poster stated, yet - you try and buy one for that price! In their first year of operation we started accepting their vouchers at a dz I worked at, luckily we didn't take many. However, they were paying us $175 for each one we accepted! Wait, all we would have to do is buy 100 vouchers from them at $165, redeem them for $175 and we've made a grand without doing the tandems, DOH!
So I got somebody to call them, and sure enough a tandem was $165, but with the gear rental and first jump course it was ACTUALLY more like $245.

I've got it!!!

All you do is call them up and ask to buy 10 tandems at $165. Cool they say - that's $1650 base price - now all you need is gear rental and FJC. "No thanks" you reply, "I have my own gear and I already know how to do it... all I want are the tickets to altitude - Cheers".

Then just redeem the vouchers and pocket the money. Angelic

If they're going to try and fuck people they shouldn't be surprised if people try to fuck them.

What do you mean it wouldn't work? Unsure


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Nov 16, 2004, 6:30 AM)


mgerra28  (D 19108)

Nov 16, 2004, 7:23 AM
Post #262 of 2276 (28392 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

How about start a website called skyider.com when people click on it it sends them to USPA with a list of Dropzones and a message not to use skyride. or use a name that will come before them in alphabetical order. Just a thought.


sid  (D 20135)

Nov 16, 2004, 8:31 AM
Post #263 of 2276 (28368 views)
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     Re: [mgerra28] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How about start a website called skyider.com when people click on it it sends them to USPA with a list of Dropzones and a message not to use skyride. or use a name that will come before them in alphabetical order. Just a thought.

Lee - that was a really good idea, shame that skyrider.com was already taken. (1800skyrider.com wasn't though) - watch this space!!!!!!!


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 16, 2004, 8:34 AM
Post #264 of 2276 (28367 views)
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     Re: [mgerra28] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Google and the majority of other search engines use technology that moves you up the list based on how many people link to your site and how relavent it finds the searches to be on keywords. The issue is that unless you search for the DZ name exactly, you'll hit a Skyride site since they all link to each other. Its called self referal. OhioSkydiving.com has a referal somewhere in it to Cincinattiskydiving.com that refers to NewYorkSkydiving that refers to Californiaskydiving and its a big round robin. That and they pay for GoogleAds that ensures if someone searches for "Skydiving" or other keywords their ads are the first ones shown. The more sites they create the more likely they are to remain at the top. Its great marketing... if they were'nt doing bait and switch's, stealing photos, and misrepresenting themselves to the public.


sid  (D 20135)

Nov 16, 2004, 9:01 AM
Post #265 of 2276 (28354 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

but - just supposing - someone were to register http://1800skyrider.com - and everyone who has a concern about them links to it, and I link back, couldn't we google bomb it at least enough to make a dent in the ratings? Oops - did I say I, my bad!


(This post was edited by sid on Nov 16, 2004, 10:47 AM)


Harksaw  (C 33932)

Nov 16, 2004, 10:47 AM
Post #266 of 2276 (28302 views)
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     Re: What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Idea: We could all googlebomb that site (I can't remember the exact address) that lists all the domains and practices of 1800skyride? Find out whatever people type in that gets 1800skyride as a number one hit, then everyone on dropzone.com puts a link with those key words in their sigs and home pages that sends you to the site listing their practices? That way anyone searching for skydiving will get the #1 hit as being information on the illicit practices of skyride.


(This post was edited by Harksaw on Nov 16, 2004, 10:47 AM)


dorbie

Nov 16, 2004, 10:51 AM
Post #267 of 2276 (28297 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I don't think google objects to legitimate links with real dropzone sites etc, they only get upset with fake sites and link backs & blatant google gaming. If all DZ sites including dropzone linked to the skyride protest site it would be entirely legitimate and rise to the top of the rankings almost instantly.

Make it clear on the front page that you are a protest site. Protest sites have survived trademark disputes, I know skyride steal from photographers & web artists but you might as well keep it legit and unassailable.

A protest site that has a few horror stories of people who were ripped off by them would help. So, a warning page, links to USPA and the lists of legitimate dropzones, a description of how you really arrange to go on a skydive, ... call to book and just show up with cash or CC, and a section to post the horror stories of people ripped off by skyride and their no refund "policy".

Let us know when the site is up so I can add a link to my site.

P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.


(This post was edited by dorbie on Nov 16, 2004, 11:00 AM)


sid  (D 20135)

Nov 16, 2004, 11:13 AM
Post #268 of 2276 (28276 views)
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     Re: [dorbie] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:


P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.

Do you think I went too far with what's up there now, or did I change it "just enough" (I'd really like to leave it there long enough for Tim Eason to see it)


sabr190  (D 22931)

Nov 16, 2004, 11:13 AM
Post #269 of 2276 (28275 views)
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     Re: [dorbie] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

If someone is going to take on the effort of making this and hosting this "protest site", let me know also, I'll add a link to our DZ homepage and my personal home page as well.


dorbie

Nov 16, 2004, 11:26 AM
Post #270 of 2276 (28263 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:


P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.

Do you think I went too far with what's up there now, or did I change it "just enough" (I'd really like to leave it there long enough for Tim Eason to see it)

You went too far, you can't take their art add an "R" and claim it's novel. If they fight you you will lose. Photoshop your own and make it a protest. This is not about duplication, it's about warning.

IANAL, but this is the central issue, if your site is visually similar such that it might be confused with the legitimate site you might get SLAP'd. So don't do that. In addition, if you lift visual elements directly you won't have a leg to stand on that's copyright theft so don't do that.

Your goal is to inform the public that skyride is not the best way to go skydiving, and definitely NOT to pretend that you are in any way similar to skyride. A URL that said plainly "dont_skyride.com" would be better IMHO, I'd recommend changing (sorry), but even if you run with 1800skyrider do not use their art or try to copy them, even if they do that to others, their bad behavior won't protect you from the consequences of your bad behavior.

Defense against trademark infringement centers around whether joe public will be confused into thinking that you are skyride in any way. Even if he isn't confused yuo still can't steal art.


MakeItHappen

Nov 16, 2004, 12:35 PM
Post #271 of 2276 (28237 views)
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     Re: [Harksaw] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Idea: We could all googlebomb that site (I can't remember the exact address) that lists all the domains and practices of 1800skyride?

Do you mean http://FunJumper.com/skyride

The page that lists the urls and has a domain owner lookup is at
SkyRide Domains

In reply to:
Find out whatever people type in that gets 1800skyride as a number one hit, then everyone on dropzone.com puts a link with those key words in their sigs and home pages that sends you to the site listing their practices? That way anyone searching for skydiving will get the #1 hit as being information on the illicit practices of skyride.


MakeItHappen

Nov 16, 2004, 1:24 PM
Post #272 of 2276 (28208 views)
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     Re: [BlueEyedMonster] Facts and Fiction [In reply to]  

In reply to:

My Question:
Why is everyone just rolling over and letting this happen? Are palms being greased with a little cash? This type of blatant misdirection of business, and fiction (see below) shouldn't be permitted.

Because everyone does it???
Bush parachutes for 80th birthday
Bush parachutes for 80th birthday

Gear Issues factor in death of British jumper
Skydiver's parachute 'incorrectly packed'

Gulfport skydiver killed in stunt landing
Gulfport skydiver killed in stunt landing

FMI:
ImagePiracy
Model Release

In reply to:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

.


sundevil777  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 3:12 PM
Post #273 of 2276 (28161 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If you ask them if they are the DZ you have in mind, which is actually someone else's, they will say "yes that's us" and give you vague directions to their own DZ, or they will say, "oh that DZ's closed, but we're open", when in reality, the DZ in question is not closed! I could go on and on and on...

I asked them about Xenia and Aerohio specifically, all they said was that they were not affiliated.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Nov 16, 2004, 3:13 PM)


Levin  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 3:15 PM
Post #274 of 2276 (28170 views)
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     Re: [piisfish] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
what can technically be done against it ??

at the moment i'm not totally sure but I am sure there are lots of things.

diablopilot made some good comments and gave some useful information earlier in this thread. here are a couple of quotes from two of his prior post in this thread.

Quote:
If people see the expence of defending their rights as too high, maybe a network of people can be put together to help. Any sympathetic souls in or near GA who can facilitate the bringing of Small Claims Suits? I guarentee that being hit with 10 or 15 succesive suits will be more damaging to this man's livelyhood than "google clicks" or other sabatouge efforts I've heard about.

Quote:
In the past I have won a $4700 judgement for wrongfuly removed/destroyed property in Small claims court. Total filing costs were $58.

I have also recieved a "cease and desist" court order against someone who was using copywrited material of mine without permision. Guess what? When presented with it they stoped using said material. Total fees involves, $17.

Crying that it costs too much to defend what you claim to be yours is a bullshit cop out. It can be done if you're determined.

BlueEyedMonster listed some useful links. They are an excellent place to start while we try and decide course of actions are best to take. I recommend everyone visit these links especially the FBI link and fill out the complaint tip questionair.

Quote:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

BlueEyedMonster also gave this useful tip...

Quote:
Affected DZ's... TAKE AWAY THEIR DOMAIN NAMES!
I would suggest involving lawyers in this. But these guys are misusing some premium domain names. Take them back.
According to ICANN http://www.icann.org/...p-policy-24oct99.htm Domain Name disputes can be lodged for the following:
- domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
- no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
- domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.

In this case, the domain name is possibly similar, but they definitely have no Minnesota DZ's and the name was registered in bad faith by the ICANNs standards. (iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location

Some other things that might can be done. Some of these have been mentioned before but I thought I would lump them together in one post since they are scattered throughout this thread.

FBI - if someone commits a crime across state lines then it falls within the jurisdiction of the FBI. Use the link provided above.

Attorney Generals Office - as mentioned several times previously in this thread.

Mutliple Law Suits - multiple law suits would cost SkyRide a fortune in legal fees. Theft of copyrighted material among other things is grounds for a lawsuit.

PayPal Account for Attorney - A PayPal account on this site or another site would be a great way to help generate Attorney fees to launch our own class action law suit against SkyRide.

Take back their domain names as said above by BlueEyedMonster

ISP - As mentioned earlier in this thread we could make complaints about wrong doings to SkyRide's Internet Service Provider

For the purposes of a lawsuit we could join forces with the other industries SkyRide is cashing in on.

Protest Site on the net to inform consumers about SkyRide as mentioned above. Such as the funjumper site. A PayPal account could be used to generate money needed for paid sponsored links.

Protest emails to Dropzones partcipating in SkyRide's program.

USPA BOD Elections - Ballots are in this months magazine. Email the candidates and see where they stand on this issue and what they plan to do about it. Vote accordingly.

A page on USPA's site devoted to informing consumers about SkyRide.

A page or sticky (permanent) article on Dropzone.com's homepage devoted to informing consumers about SkyRide.

An indepth magazine article about SkyRide for Parachutist and/or Skydiving Magazine to inform the entire skydiving population. Not everyone reads these forums.

Try and get your local media interested both publications and television. Every reporter loves a good story. If the story runs in enough places it could possibly make national news on CNN and/or FOX news.

Inform ASC's local jumpers. If they can made interested they can voice their concerns directly with the PARASITE. Removing the parasite's support structure would be highly beneficial to stopping his infection of our sport.

As a last resort use Dropzone.com to develop a similar business to SkyRide to compete with him directly. I hope it doesn't come to this but this may be one of the best ways to flush out the parasite.

An organzied protest at ASC could get national media attention and deter customers from putting their money into a parasite support structure.

If anybody else has any ideas please list them.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 3:21 PM
Post #275 of 2276 (28169 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Stop looking at what they founded their business model on, and look at what they are actually doing.

Not everyone has been jumping as long as this has been going on. It's important that newer jumpers especially those that jump at ASC and the oither parasite DZ's understand the full scope of what is and has been going happening now and for the past several years. The more informed people are the better they can take a stand on this issue and stop putting their money in this parasite's pocket.


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 4:00 PM
Post #276 of 2276 (28126 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Has anyone contacted Google to let them know about the illegal practices of the websites they are listing? I'm thinknig they would remove the listings if we could give them solid proof.


teason  (D 18902)

Nov 16, 2004, 4:27 PM
Post #277 of 2276 (28110 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I e-mail every search engine I could find and told them about these issues. They told me they couldn't take action based on allegations. I just did a search on google a little while ago and the pirated Adventure skydiving sites are now harder to find. Still lots on MSN though.

Partial victory?

p.s. Hey Sid, how about 1-888-skyride? Wink




(This post was edited by teason on Nov 16, 2004, 4:27 PM)


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 4:30 PM
Post #278 of 2276 (28106 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

It's not allegations if the photographers contact google, et al


marks  (D 22296)

Nov 16, 2004, 5:21 PM
Post #279 of 2276 (28091 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
It's not allegations if the photographers contact google, et al

correct

Quote:
Inform ASC's local jumpers.

they already know... i used to jump at asc. sometimes i still do. i chose to support hans paulsan and skydive the farm though. why?. well im not sure. it just feels right. and well alot of other peeps are following along. im having alot of fun at the farm, i used to have alot of fun at asc. but somwherer along the line it went away.

as for chuting starr rigging loft. i love mike, he is a freind and an exccellent rigger, i will continue to send my buissness to him along with other buissness from my students, as long as there is no soliciting to come jump at there drop zone to the students i send there. and i think mike understands that. alot of the things that go on at asc are way out of hand and not my buissness. i like alot of peaple there including some of the owners. but the more i travel the more i relize there is a whole nother world out there.

fgorgive the spelling errors cause i dont care!


ChasingBlueSky  (D License)

Nov 16, 2004, 5:41 PM
Post #280 of 2276 (28078 views)
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     Re: [marks] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
i used to jump at asc.

Are you still staff there? From the looks of the website, you still are. When did you leave? Also, my understanding is that there are a few other people on that list that are no longer staff members (including Nathan).

http://www.ascskydiving.com/..._skydiving_staff.htm


TOT  (B 5150)

Nov 16, 2004, 9:08 PM
Post #281 of 2276 (28016 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Dont companies pay for 1-888 phone numbers by the call ?

If they do then we should all call it every day and ask questions about skydiving then hang up. In the long run it might hurt them in the pocket book.


dropzonefool

Nov 16, 2004, 10:00 PM
Post #282 of 2276 (28001 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 
Post:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


OK, I just read this entire thread and maybe I missed it where it was explained why they are so bad! Many DZo's will lie and let a newbie drive to there DZ and pass right by there competitor. I was so curious I googled 1800skyride, there websight states the tandem jump is $165, I found that un-offensive, so I called them and they confirmed it was $165 and tried to talk me in to buying an additional certificate to give to a friend so I would not have to jump alone, another marketing sale. I hung up on the guy and still do not understand WHY? ... Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out more of their tactics... If you ask them if they are the DZ you have in mind, which is actually someone else's, they will say "yes that's us" and give you vague directions to their own DZ, or they will say, "oh that DZ's closed, but we're open", when in reality, the DZ in question is not closed! I could go on and on and on... but I don't have the time. Do the research. This bullshit goes back 4 to 5 years.

Blue Skies
Billy

RE posted to add...... while visiting the link Levin posted for Skydiv"ING" Houston. I clicked on the clicky, sent an email to >info@skydivinghouston.com< asking where they were located in Houston?

I received a reply today from >www.skydivehouston.com<

today stating they were located 45 minuets west of houston in Waller, TX.

Puzzled at first, then thought, Skyride has hijacked thier e-mail too? well maybeShocked


(This post was edited by dropzonefool on Nov 16, 2004, 10:05 PM)


noctralucent  (D 30762)

Nov 16, 2004, 10:15 PM
Post #283 of 2276 (27992 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

The pain you feel must be pretty bad inside for you not even be able to come meet the people at ASC they are way cool. The word skyride is simply not is the place not on the walls not in the classroom not in or on the otter. If this so important to my dz than why don't I see it here.


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 16, 2004, 10:23 PM
Post #284 of 2276 (27989 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
OK, I just read this entire thread .....Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?
Read it again. You missed:
1) Copyright infringement mentioned in the thread.
2) Telling people the certificates are accepted at DZ's they are not.
3) Trademark infringement. Example here is Skydive Chicago
4) FRAUD. Setting up web sites for DZ's that do not exist for the purpose of selling the certificates that may or may not be redemable. Many Many examples listed.


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 16, 2004, 10:25 PM
Post #285 of 2276 (27987 views)
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     Re: [noctralucent] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If this so important to my dz than why don't I see it here
Because they don't want to associate the DZ with the scam. --just my thought.


(This post was edited by BlueEyedMonster on Nov 16, 2004, 10:26 PM)


sid  (D 20135)

Nov 17, 2004, 3:09 AM
Post #286 of 2276 (27968 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:

p.s. Hey Sid, how about 1-888-skyride? Wink

DAMN! and I spent all night working on http://www.1800skyrider.com


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Nov 17, 2004, 3:21 AM
Post #287 of 2276 (27966 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
RE posted to add...... while visiting the link Levin posted for Skydiv"ING" Houston. I clicked on the clicky, sent an email to >info@skydivinghouston.com< asking where they were located in Houston?

I received a reply today from >www.skydivehouston.com<

today stating they were located 45 minuets west of houston in Waller, TX.

Puzzled at first, then thought, Skyride has hijacked thier e-mail too? well maybeShocked

No, I think somebody made a mistake - Skydive Houston IS in Waller, but www.skydivinghouston.com is NOT their website, http://www.skydivehouston.com is.

I emailed the staff at SD Houston and let them know about the other website, so we'll see where it goes...


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Nov 17, 2004, 5:48 AM
Post #288 of 2276 (27938 views)
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     Re: [mnealtx] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

How about this one?
http://www.skydivingarizona.com
Me see trouble brewing...Unsure


(This post was edited by bbarnhouse on Nov 17, 2004, 5:49 AM)


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:27 AM
Post #289 of 2276 (27921 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How about this one?
http://www.skydivingarizona.com
Me see trouble brewing...Unsure

I'm guessing Larry Hill is not going to be taking this sitting down... as big as Skydive Arizona is, he should have enough resources to beat off the parasites...

Cary has basically taken up domain names for fictitious DZs in just about every state, including Alaska, North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Hawaii, and almost every major city. We all have our work cut out for us. Get out there and fight to get those domains back!

Blue Skies,
Billy


sunshine  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:53 AM
Post #290 of 2276 (27908 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I'm guessing Larry Hill is not going to be taking this sitting down... as big as Skydive Arizona is, he should have enough resources to beat off the parasites...

And it's downright pathetic that Larry has to use his honestly earned money to fight a crook. Unsure

I'm wondering why none of the funjumpers at ASC have piped in. I'm curious as to what they think of this.


marks  (D 22296)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:59 AM
Post #291 of 2276 (27906 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
i used to jump at asc.

Are you still staff there? From the looks of the website, you still are. When did you leave? Also, my understanding is that there are a few other people on that list that are no longer staff members (including Nathan).

http://www.ascskydiving.com/..._skydiving_staff.htm


im not ON STAFF there. but it isnt like i would refuse to work for them at all.. but the reality is that i want to make a few working jumps each weekend and then make fun jumps, at asc i cant do that cause it is work work work.

this sport is fun to me. not a job, and at asc i felt like it was a job to me, so i went elswhere.

if you guys plan on trying to take skyride down, all i can say is you better get your shit together. cary is a genius when it comes to the net.

whats up cary, i know your reading this. tell you beautifull wife i said hello.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Nov 17, 2004, 7:26 AM
Post #292 of 2276 (27896 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Google and the majority of other search engines use technology that moves you up the list based on how many people link to your site and how relavent it finds the searches to be on keywords. The issue is that unless you search for the DZ name exactly, you'll hit a Skyride site since they all link to each other. Its called self referal. OhioSkydiving.com has a referal somewhere in it to Cincinattiskydiving.com that refers to NewYorkSkydiving that refers to Californiaskydiving and its a big round robin. That and they pay for GoogleAds that ensures if someone searches for "Skydiving" or other keywords their ads are the first ones shown. The more sites they create the more likely they are to remain at the top. Its great marketing... if they were'nt doing bait and switch's, stealing photos, and misrepresenting themselves to the public.

So if all the legit DZs were to create a “links” page and list all other legit DZs across the country, we would all be pushed to the top of searches? I know it would take a lot of work, a lot of cooperation, and for any politics between local DZs to be put aside, and I doubt that it would ever happen but it is a thought.
I saw a site that had various locations in California listed as links at the bottom of their home page. These links for “SkydiveLA” took me to another page on the same site, for instance the FAQ page. Dose this work on the same theory to pick up more searches with these “links”?


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 7:43 AM
Post #293 of 2276 (27883 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

http://www.skydiving.com/...kydive_arizona.shtml 5 DZs all so close by in Arizona. How's Eloy gonna survive all that competition?? Tongue

Ya know when I looked at skydiving.com before, I couldn't understand how it fit into the skyride scam since it links directly to real dropzones. What I hadn't noticed is that it shows locations for many of their fictional dropzones as well, and leaves off a huge number of apparently non-participating DZs. And of course the fictional ones are often located right in major urban areas, much more convenient for many people to get to. Well, until they're told to go somewhere else.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Nov 17, 2004, 7:48 AM)


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Nov 17, 2004, 8:13 AM
Post #294 of 2276 (27863 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How's Eloy gonna survive all that competition??

Heck I dunno...maybe hire a gaggle of geese?Tongue


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 8:15 AM
Post #295 of 2276 (27861 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I'm guessing Larry Hill is not going to be taking this sitting down... as big as Skydive Arizona is, he should have enough resources to beat off the parasites...

Like he had to fight off http://www.arizonaskydiving.com?


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Nov 17, 2004, 8:19 AM
Post #296 of 2276 (27856 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Like he had to fight off http://www.arizonaskydiving.com?

There is an entire history there and agreements.
Lets keep this about skyride shall we?


diablopilot  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 8:20 AM
Post #297 of 2276 (27854 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

My apologies. I'm gonna shut up again.


kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 17, 2004, 11:07 AM
Post #298 of 2276 (27790 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

 
I fail to see how such deceptive advertizing can possibly be legal.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 17, 2004, 1:01 PM
Post #299 of 2276 (27755 views)
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     Re: [kallend] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I fail to see how such deceptive advertizing can possibly be legal.

Most of it isn't. Cary's just banking on the fact that nobody is going to bother taking him to court over it.

I think he'll be unpleasantly surprised in the very near future.


packerboy  (C 34282)

Nov 17, 2004, 1:06 PM
Post #300 of 2276 (27748 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Maybe the history of a DZ doing legal battle for a web address that decietfully leads people to believe they are doing business with someone who they are not does belong in this thread.... or at least a link.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 1:47 PM
Post #301 of 2276 (27766 views)
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     Re: [dropzonefool] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
RE posted to add...... while visiting the link Levin posted for Skydiv"ING" Houston. I clicked on the clicky, sent an email to >info@skydivinghouston.com< asking where they were located in Houston?

I received a reply today from >www.skydivehouston.com<

today stating they were located 45 minuets west of houston in Waller, TX.

Puzzled at first, then thought, Skyride has hijacked thier e-mail too? well maybe
Skydivers find it exhilerating to hang poised between immortality, and the reality of death......I don't know who to quote.

http://www.skydivinghouston.com is SkyRide. http://www.skydivehouston.com is Waller. The SkyRide website (skydivinghouston) currently has an email for reservations@skydivehouston.com on the contact page. This just recently popped up on that site in the past few days. Skydive Houston's main email is info@skydivehouston.com. They do not use reservations@skydivehouston.com. They never created that email. Skydive Houston is right now looking into this. But I do not believe they know (at the moment) what to do about it. Apparantly the PARASITE has hijacked their email. I advised manifest at Waller to use the link for the FBI tips provided by BlueEyedMonster. I'm not really sure what to do about this either. Anyone have any ideas? As for the reply you received, SkydiveHouston is not sure they sent that reply. Manifest at SkydiveHouston todat called the SkyRide number on the skydivinghouston website. The tried to find out where this fictitous DZ was located. The person they talked to at Skyride gave them directions to Spaceland without ever saying Spaceland.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Nov 17, 2004, 1:55 PM
Post #302 of 2276 (27762 views)
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     Re: [bbarnhouse] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I just emailed them Sly
Quote:
I just found your site and am wondering just which dropzone you are? I can’t find your dropzone on uspa.org? Are you a new DZ? How do I get to your place when I am down in Arizona next month? What will my jumps cost me? I am always looking for new places to Jump and would love to come make a jump at your DZ. Please email me ASAP so I can add your DZ to my travel arrangements

Wonder what the reply will be???


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 2:01 PM
Post #303 of 2276 (27756 views)
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     Re: [noctralucent] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The pain you feel must be pretty bad inside

huh? it's not pain. it's disgust.

In reply to:
for you not even be able to come meet the people at ASC they are way cool.

huh? i'm in texas dude. i'm not travelling across 4 states to check out a PARASITE's place of business.

i never said the people weren't way cool. most of the people in this sport are way cool. why would i assume asc jumpers are any different. what i said was, ASC jumpers are part of a parasite support structure because they put their money in a PARASITE's pocket. i am quit sure that 99% of all ASC fun jumpers are not involved in ASC's DZ politics and jump their just because they have fun jumping there. that is why i keep saying it is important to inform the jumpers at ASC about this issue so that they will realize their money spent jumping is being used to invest in the destruction of our sport.

In reply to:
If this so important to my dz than why don't I see it here.

because this PARASITE shits in other people's backyards. not his own.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 2:13 PM
Post #304 of 2276 (27739 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

the email on the SkyRide site (skydivinghouston) is going to to Skydive Houston. Apparantly the PARASITE screwed up and left the "ing" off of skydive on his contact email.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Nov 17, 2004, 2:25 PM
Post #305 of 2276 (27732 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
the email on the SkyRide site (skydivinghouston) is going to to Skydive Houston. Apparantly the PARASITE screwed up and left the "ing" off of skydive on his contact email.

yes. the MX entries for the two domains are fine. So Skydive Houston would do well to add an account entry for "reservations" and reap the benefits.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 2:42 PM
Post #306 of 2276 (27720 views)
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     Re: [kelpdiver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

they did


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 17, 2004, 2:57 PM
Post #307 of 2276 (27709 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Apparantly the PARASITE screwed up and left the "ing" off of skydive on his contact email.

Don't know that it would have been a mistake.... It is this way on their map for many REAL DZs. "reservations"@domain-name.com

Think about it. You send a note to a DZ, and it bounces because the "reservations" account does not exist on their domain. What's gonna happen? Click the next guy on the map... That actually links to a web site where you can see pictures...and it says SKYRIDE in big letters.

The Skyride guys aren't stupid... just scum.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Nov 17, 2004, 3:25 PM
Post #308 of 2276 (27690 views)
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     Re: [BlueEyedMonster] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Think about it. You send a note to a DZ, and it bounces because the "reservations" account does not exist on their domain. What's gonna happen? Click the next guy on the map... That actually links to a web site where you can see pictures...and it says SKYRIDE in big letters.

The Skyride guys aren't stupid... just scum.

But it's on their (skyride) website that the bounce happens! I think it this case it was clearly stupid, not scum.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 3:53 PM
Post #309 of 2276 (27681 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
DAMN! and I spent all night working on http://www.1800skyrider.com

Cool!! Wonder how many clicks it will take to get it to the top of a google search. keep clicking and see.

http://www.1800skyrider.com


benny  (C License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:20 PM
Post #310 of 2276 (27651 views)
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     What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Seems to me that all y'all who have your panties in a wad over skyride need to have a talk with your dzo's. Tell em your really freakin jealous of these people who can have a seven day a week dropzone with twin - otter loads all the time and where it's no big deal for a jumper to do around 250 jumps in his first year on a packer's salaryLaugh. Then tell em that you can do that too with one simple little thing, marketing.Wink


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:24 PM
Post #311 of 2276 (27648 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Google doesn't know how many hits a web page gets unless the hits come from google. Gotta get the site to come up when someone searches for skydiving. Hell, it's hard to find 1800skyride when you do a google search for skyride.

Dave


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:25 PM
Post #312 of 2276 (27644 views)
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     Re: [benny] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Marketing? What is ASC, a cult?? Skyride is the exact type of thing that prevents LEGAL marketing from being effective.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Nov 17, 2004, 5:27 PM)


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:30 PM
Post #313 of 2276 (27638 views)
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     Re: [sid] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

i did a google search for skyride and skyrider just to see if your site was showing up on the list. after doing i skyrider search i noticed that Skyrider is a brand of ultralight. In earlier post in this thread someone said they had started a class action lawsuit when they got ripped on multiple tandems. That persons user name is quicksilver. Quicksilver is a very popular ultralight that has been around forever. http://www.dropzone.com/...silver;guest=8025207 I have a gut feeling that Claire is really Cary and Cary is an avid ultralight pilot. I could be wrong but I think that whole lawsuit thing was just bullshit to try and shut this thread up.


noctralucent  (D 30762)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:36 PM
Post #314 of 2276 (27635 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Well thanks for saying we here at ASC are not scum. this and many DZ's around the country most likley have a skeleton in the closet. However your mixing my dz my friends, teachers and riggers up with some fraud that besides an old web site that anyone could have made I see no connection to asc. Plus if there is a parasitic fraud like you claim at ASC the FBI will be coming until they do BE NICE because I bet if I had a look around your closet you would be into some illegal stuff as well. You should be digusted is your blanket coments about us who jump at ASC as being parasitic.Mad


(This post was edited by noctralucent on Nov 17, 2004, 11:36 PM)


benny  (C License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:37 PM
Post #315 of 2276 (27634 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Marketing? What is ASC, a cult?? Skyride is the exact type of thing that prevents LEGAL marketing from being effective.

Dave

Marketing, yes, another word for it advertising. Getting the word out, whether it be throught websites or billboards or whatever. Yeah, more people should now about skydiving and places they might contact if they were interested in doing so. Is ASC a cult? Well, they did make me bow to the golden drogue.... Hah, seriously. have you ever been to ASC? If not, come on down, I'm sure that most fun jumpers would be suprised to find that it's not a bunch of storm troopers marching to Darth's orders but rather a place where some very good skydivers (and some on their way to being very good) call home. Those of us who are there on a daily basis love fun jumpers, and while the tandem mill aspect keeps us alive, it also provides us and them with the only 7 day a week dropzone within what is about a 300 mile radius of the city of atlanta. Not too shabby if you ask me.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:38 PM
Post #316 of 2276 (27644 views)
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     Re: [benny] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I get the whole support your DZ no matter what thing. Don't think you are immune because you jump there. Very few to no skydivers spend their entire jumping career at one DZ. One day you may decide to move somewhere else and your home DZ will change. You may find yourself on the other side of the fence. Especially if you later on decide get ratings and go the instructor route.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 5:48 PM
Post #317 of 2276 (27634 views)
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     Re: [noctralucent] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Well thanks for saying we here at ASC are not scum. this and many DZ's around the country most likley have a skeleton in the closet. However your mixing my dz my friends, teachers and riggers up with some fraud that besides an old web site that anyone could have made I see no connection to asc. Plus if there is a parasitic fraud like you claim at ASC the FBI will be coming until they do BE NICE because I bet if I had a look around your closet you would be into some illegal stuff as well. what you should be digusted is your blanket coments about us who jump at ASC as being parasitic.

I never said you or your friends are scum. I said you and your friends are part of a parasite support structure. You spend your money at the PARASITE's place of business. That money goes into the PARASITE's pocket and is used to further invest his infection on our sport.

In reply to:
besides an old web site that anyone could have made I see no connection to asc

the old website happens to be over 400 fictitous websites for businesses that do not exist. The owner of these websites and SkyRide is the same PARASITE that owns ASC.

Instead of blindly trying to support and defend your home DZ I suggest you go do some research and educate yourself about what is going on behind the scene right in front of your face.

Get a clue dude.

edit: almost forgot to address this

In reply to:
I bet if I had a look around your closet you would be into some illegal stuff as well

what the hell are talking about? are you saying no one should say anything because everybody does illegal stuff and that makes us all illegal hypocrits?


(This post was edited by Levin on Nov 17, 2004, 6:16 PM)


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:09 PM
Post #318 of 2276 (27615 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Unnecessary pointed comment edited by slotperfect

This is a very important thread for those of us who skydive in the U.S.

It is critical for this thread to remain civil and objective.

Please keep it from elevating to personal attacks, keep it on topic, and keep it free from "noise."

Unnecessary pointed comments that could spark a flame war and destroy the thread will be edited or removed.

Cheers.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:14 PM
Post #319 of 2276 (27610 views)
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     Re: [slotperfect] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

sorry dude.

i don't think it qualified as a personal attack. more like a frustrated comment. i agree it could have sparked a retaliation reply.

i stand moderated.


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:15 PM
Post #320 of 2276 (27606 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
i don't think it qualified as a personal attack.

It wasn't . . . that's why I called it a "pointed comment." Cool


marks  (D 22296)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:23 PM
Post #321 of 2276 (27605 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
i did a google search for skyride and skyrider just to see if your site was showing up on the list. after doing i skyrider search i noticed that Skyrider is a brand of ultralight. In earlier post in this thread someone said they had started a class action lawsuit when they got ripped on multiple tandems. That persons user name is quicksilver. Quicksilver is a very popular ultralight that has been around forever. http://www.dropzone.com/...silver;guest=8025207 I have a gut feeling that Claire is really Cary and Cary is an avid ultralight pilot. I could be wrong but I think that whole lawsuit thing was just bullshit to try and shut this thread up.

now your paranoid. cary isnt an ultralight pilot.. i can see him right now laughing his ass off at that comment.

im not taking any sides whatsoever. i cans see the disgust also. but i just thought that was funny..


bbarnhouse  (D License)
Pixie
Nov 17, 2004, 6:25 PM
Post #322 of 2276 (27601 views)
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     Re: [slotperfect] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
This is a very important thread for those of us who skydive in the U.S.
I agree that it is important but also for those outside of the U.S. whose drop zones have been affected by Skyride.

In reply to:
It is critical for this thread to remain civil and objective.

Absolutely so. For those that are relatively new to the sport, I would suggest that you visit http://www.funjumper.com/skyride and read what is there prior to posting. There is much to be learned from Jan's site.
Lets all play nicely and keep to the topic at hand.
Regards!
B2


Levin  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:29 PM
Post #323 of 2276 (27595 views)
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     Re: [marks] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
now your paranoid. cary isnt an ultralight pilot.. i can see him right now laughing his ass off at that comment.

LOL. I guess if he was he would be selling certificates for ultralight rides on SkyRide. Ooops! Did I just say that? My Apologies to the ultralight community.


pilotdave  (D License)

Nov 17, 2004, 6:54 PM
Post #324 of 2276 (27585 views)
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     Re: What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Interesting. http://www.Ecubit.com is registered to Cary. They're an IT company. I'm guessing he knows his shit when it comes to computers, like many have said. Not sure why he didn't do a better job of hiding his personal affiliation with skyride, but hey, makes my life easier.

Another way we might be able to do something. It seems that many of the skyride non-existant dropzone websites are registered through http://www.enom.com. On their "about us" page, they say: "Please send notices of Copyright Infringement to eNom's legal department:
eNom, Inc. Attn. Legal
2002 156th Ave. NE, Suite #300
Unigard Park, McKinley Building
Bellevue, WA 98007 USA
Phone: 425.274.4500
Email: legal@enom.com"

Anyone have SPECIFIC instances of copyright infringement shown on a site registered with enom? You can find where their sites are registered at http://www.betterwhois.com. If it comes back at the top with ENOM.com, it can be included. Same kind of thing can be done at network solutions where other domains of theirs are registered.

Dave


packerboy  (C 34282)

Nov 17, 2004, 7:03 PM
Post #325 of 2276 (27577 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I'm interested to hear about the Skydive Arizona and the website Skydiving Arizona thing. If it is not relevant to this thread than would someone please PM me with some details please.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 17, 2004, 7:12 PM
Post #326 of 2276 (27536 views)
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     Re: [pilotdave] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Could a lawyer or anyone that knows clarify if just anyone can report a copyright violation or if the owner of the copyright has to be the one that files the complaint. Also is there a precompiled form that you have to use or will anything work?


BlueEyedMonster  (D 26880)

Nov 17, 2004, 8:34 PM
Post #327 of 2276 (27512 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
anyone that knows clarify if just anyone can report a copyright violation or if the owner of the copyright has to be the one that files the complaint.

Had to go through this once when I busted someone stealing my resume off of my website. A copyright violation is not a crime actually. So no, you cannot report it. No law enforcement agency can actually do anything about it. The best the copyright holder can do is to or have a lawyer send a cease and desist letter. If the letter is ignored, the violator can be sued for actual damages. Lawyer fees and additional penalties can only be sued for if the image/selection is registered with the Library of Congress.


ematteo  (D 24418)

Nov 18, 2004, 12:17 AM
Post #328 of 2276 (27485 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Not a lawyer but the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) is probably relevant here. Might make sense to reference it and a "takedown" request in any message to the service provider.

Check out:

http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm
Quote:
· In general, limits Internet service providers from copyright infringement liability for simply transmitting information over the Internet.

· Service providers, however, are expected to remove material from users' web sites that appears to constitute copyright infringement.

More specifically, from the law:
http://thomas.loc.gov/.../~c105zAslMX:e57590:

Quote:
`(3) ELEMENTS OF NOTIFICATION-

`(A) To be effective under this subsection, a notification of claimed infringement must be a written communication provided to the designated agent of a service provider that includes substantially the following:

`(i) A physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

`(ii) Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site.

`(iii) Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate the material.

`(iv) Information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to contact the complaining party, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an electronic mail address at which the complaining party may be contacted.

`(v) A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.

`(vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

`(B)(i) Subject to clause (ii), a notification from a copyright owner or from a person authorized to act on behalf of the copyright owner that fails to comply substantially with the provisions of subparagraph (A) shall not be considered under paragraph (1)(A) in determining whether a service provider has actual knowledge or is aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent.

`(ii) In a case in which the notification that is provided to the service provider's designated agent fails to comply substantially with all the provisions of subparagraph (A) but substantially complies with clauses (ii), (iii), and (iv) of subparagraph (A), clause (i) of this subparagraph applies only if the service provider promptly attempts to contact the person making the notification or takes other reasonable steps to assist in the receipt of notification that substantially complies with all the provisions of subparagraph (A).


ematteo  (D 24418)

Nov 18, 2004, 12:23 AM
Post #329 of 2276 (27484 views)
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     Re: [ematteo] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

One of the knocks on the DMCA is that service providers are often over-quick to remove suspect material. This is helpful in this case.

The reason is that there is no standard of proof required to take down material but if service providers leave it up, they are liable for copyright infringement ($$ damages).


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Nov 18, 2004, 4:26 AM
Post #330 of 2276 (27472 views)
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     Re: [Levin] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I never said you or your friends are scum. I said you and your friends are part of a parasite support structure. You spend your money at the PARASITE's place of business. That money goes into the PARASITE's pocket and is used to further invest his infection on our sport.

So are there other nearby DZs, or not? I heard 300 miles, but that seems unlikely. In any event, at a certain point you can't castigate every customer for jumping there. Driving extra miles to make a stand is a personal call. Ultimately fun jumpers will leave a place that delivers bad service.

I am very entertained by the Atlanta Skydiving Website though. The deceptive practices are pretty apparent. "Call for our current special pricing!" And when in Alabama, visit the Alabama Skydiving Center. Compare the directions (from Huntsville) to the "two" DZs:

Atlanta:
....
Take I-20 east to US-231 toward Ashville/Pell City (Exit 158)
Keep right at the fork in the ramp
Turn left onto Hwy 34 at the light
Turn left onto Mays Bend Road
Take an immediate left onto Golf Course Rd.
Go 2 miles and turn right onto Airport Road

Alabama:
....
Take I-20 east to US-231 toward exit #162 Pell City/Riverside
Turn right off exit
Left onto Truss Ferry Road at Citgo station
Right onto Golf Coarse Road at a 4-way stop
Left onto Airport Road, thru stop sign and we are the first hanger on right.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 18, 2004, 6:00 AM
Post #331 of 2276 (27452 views)
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     Re: [kelpdiver] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

>So are there other nearby DZs, or not?

Sure there is. Skydive the Farm is in the same town (Cedartown), just at a different location. I've heard its less then 15 minutes between the DZ's. Skydive Atlanta is no more then an hour away at the most. From the center of Atlanta I know of Monroe, Rome, Skydive the Farm, Skydive Atlanta that are all with in an hour and a half.

Fun jumpers are'nt the ones that are providing the bulk of the money for him to keep advertising, its the students he sucks in that keeps paying for more of this.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Nov 18, 2004, 6:42 AM
Post #332 of 2276 (27442 views)
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     Re: [packerboy] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

They emailed me back Smile
Quote:
Hello John,
We are not actually a dropzone. We are a reservation/booking agency all across the U.S. We put people in touch with local dropzones. I'm am not sure were your are going to be in the Arizona area. We recommend Arizona Skydiving Coolidge and Desert Skydiving Center. Are jumps are around $20.00 for the lift ticket. If you have any friends or relatives that would like to have a lifetime experience doing their first tandem skydive please give us a call.

Thanks
Anna
1-800-641-3483
Blue Skies
www.skydivingarizona.com


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 18, 2004, 6:47 AM
Post #333 of 2276 (27437 views)
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     Re: [catfishhunter] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
They emailed me back Smile
Quote:
Hello John,
We are not actually a dropzone. We are a reservation/booking agency all across the U.S. We put people in touch with local dropzones. I'm am not sure were your are going to be in the Arizona area. We recommend Arizona Skydiving Coolidge and Desert Skydiving Center. Are jumps are around $20.00 for the lift ticket. If you have any friends or relatives that would like to have a lifetime experience doing their first tandem skydive please give us a call.

Thanks
Anna
1-800-641-3483
Blue Skies
www.skydivingarizona.com

And Skydive Arizona, THE drop zone in Arizona, was conveniently left off? Sic 'em Larry!

Billy


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Nov 18, 2004, 7:01 AM
Post #334 of 2276 (27428 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Here is my reply to them Sly
Quote:
Ok I am confused…how can you be advertising that you ARE a DZ but in reality your not? Sounds like a Bait and Switch? So these other two DZ are affiliated with you? This sport is very unforgiving and Karma is a bitch. Your false advertising is bad mojo and I don’t think I want to jump at any place with bad mojo~~~~I am going to search for these other two DZ And tell them the same thing..


Regards


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Nov 18, 2004, 8:09 AM
Post #335 of 2276 (27392 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

catfishhunter has requested specific input via PM in this thread.


lowhook  (D 18667)

Nov 18, 2004, 12:20 PM
Post #336 of 2276 (27322 views)
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     Re: [catfishhunter] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Here was a call I just had with them: (skydivingarizona.com)

*67 (block caller id)
1-800-641-3483

Them: Hello, adventure skydiving

Me: Sorry, I thought this was Skydive Arizona.

Them: Oh, we are their booking office

Me: Ok, I wanted to check on team rates. My 4-way team would like to check the rate on 500 jump tickets. We will be there in Eloy on Jan 15-30 and will make at least 100 jumps as a team.

Them: Please hold........

Them: OK, are you an experienced skydiver?

Me: Well YES! That is the reason I want to buy at least 500 slots.

Them: Please hold........

Them: OK, would you be wanting to make a tandem skydive?

Me: Is this really Skydive Arizona, I just want to buy 500 jump tickets and arrange for some coaching with Airspeed.

Them: Well actually Sir, we are a booking agency for over 400 dropzones around the country and...

Me: So you're not Skydive Arizona...why did you try to act like them? Well this is certainly confusing. Goodbye

What a joke that place is!


brandihough

Nov 18, 2004, 1:01 PM
Post #337 of 2276 (27286 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Skydive the farm and ASC are about 8 mins apart. The prices for lift tickets are about the same as far as up jumpers go. There are more up jumpers at the farm (which is really odd because there are like only 2 that came from asc). Tandems are 129, but this weekend only 99. The farm is the fastest growing new dz that i've ever seen. Monroe only has a cessna right now I think. So we have a lot of up jumpers coming from there and skydive atlanta like myself.


LawnDart21  (D License)

Nov 18, 2004, 1:45 PM
Post #338 of 2276 (27265 views)
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     Re: [ChasingBlueSky] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

I have to admit I got a good laugh from Skyride's website for the Massachusetts Skydiving Center and the New Hampshire Skydiving center. Both ficticious DZs in the Southern New England area.

From a personal stand point I agree that this type of marketing is misleading and does not promote our sport in an ethical or professional manner, but at the same time, I can also see it's core business plan (third party brokering) as a legitimate business practice.

Third party brokering exists in all aspects of our economy, whether its limousines, concert tickets, I mean we go to Expedia to buy airline tickets, yet Expedia doesnt own an airline. I'm not defending skyride by any means, just saying that this type of third party brokering venture exists in all walks of life, and in some cases it actually is worth the higher premium paid on goods and services. (Like getting better seats to a concert because one ticket dealer has a better selection, despite the higher price).

There have been some legitimate copy right infringements that some people have mentioned. Using pictures without consent, etc. That is wrong, that I don't agree with.

Brokering tandem jumps isn't unethical, being dishonest and misleading on the phone and in advertising, thats the unethical part.

My question is, is it possible for Skyride to continue to do business but in an ethical capacity? If they cared about the sport, they could actually be in a position to help the sport by acting more ethically and find a way to work with all USPA dropzones, instead of pitting them against each other.

Just my .02


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Nov 18, 2004, 3:36 PM
Post #339 of 2276 (27222 views)
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     Re: [LawnDart21] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
My question is, is it possible for Skyride to continue to do business but in an ethical capacity? If they cared about the sport, they could actually be in a position to help the sport by acting more ethically and find a way to work with all USPA dropzones, instead of pitting them against each other.

Just my .02

Good luck trying to tell that hardhead Cary this. He only thinks how much money he can get at everybody else's expense. He won't care if it's ethical or not, that's the problem.

Billy


sunshine  (D License)

Nov 18, 2004, 4:14 PM
Post #340 of 2276 (27204 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
Good luck trying to tell that hardhead Cary this. He only thinks how much money he can get at everybody else's expense. He won't care if it's ethical or not, that's the problem.

How old is this cary dude?


teason  (D 18902)

Nov 18, 2004, 4:24 PM
Post #341 of 2276 (27201 views)
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     Re: [LawnDart21] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

Quote:
There have been some legitimate copy right infringements that some people have mentioned. Using pictures without consent, etc. That is wrong, that I don't agree with.
It goes a little beyond that. there are at least 26 websites that are basically cut and paste juobs of my site.

Quote:
My question is, is it possible for Skyride to continue to do business but in an ethical capacity?

I do business with a company that does everything that Skyride does but does it all above boards without tactics that break laws. The skyride concepts is good, but their methods are underhanded.

They do nothing to earn their comisions. They hold students ransom, if you don't accept thier coupons, then they redirect students to other DZs.

Mad


Levin  (D License)

Nov 18, 2004, 5:50 PM
Post #342 of 2276 (27171 views)
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     Re: [LawnDart21] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
and in some cases it actually is worth the higher premium paid on goods and services. (Like getting better seats to a concert because one ticket dealer has a better selection, despite the higher price).

i can't see how SkyRide can offer a better service that would justify higher cost by booking tandem reservations for other DZ's. His services are not going to get you on the plane any faster or offer a better window seat with peanuts or altoids to snack during the climb to altitude. i get what you are saying but i can't see how it would apply in this industry. bottom line is the best way for a 1st time tandem jump customer to jump is to make the reservation directly with the DZ.

In reply to:
My question is, is it possible for Skyride to continue to do business but in an ethical capacity?

that is up to the DZ's and the industry. in light of all that has happened I don't see how this guy can ever be fully trusted. It's not just SkyRide. His evil business tactics have a history dating back 5+ years.

In reply to:
If they cared about the sport

they don't


Levin  (D License)

Nov 18, 2004, 5:51 PM
Post #343 of 2276 (27169 views)
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     Re: [sunshine] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How old is this cary dude?

i believe he's married. he's old enough to have made millions at the expense of others.


Levin  (D License)

Nov 18, 2004, 5:58 PM
Post #344 of 2276 (27165 views)
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     Re: [teason] What can we do about Skyride? [In reply to]  

If he is guilty of "Bait & Switch" and he is then we need to find some of these people that were screwd over. These people are necessary to build a case for the FBI. I think involving the FBI would be