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STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS

 

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Liemberg  (Student)

Sep 29, 2004, 3:48 AM
Post #26 of 95 (2038 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
On the other hand, it would be nice if SEI moved its handles in line with the rest of the tandem industry (i.e. second drogue release handle on lower left). That would make it easier for national aero clubs to take over the role of training new TIs.
But that is a "minor modification" *) on a DHT already...

*) Don't want to go into who can / cant / should / shouldn't - just to say that there are DHT's out there with secondary drogue release handle lower left and that it is not much work to modify them.
And yes, overhere the national aeroclub has taken over the training of new TIs. But for the time being it isn't mandatory so old dogs like myself dont have to learn new tricks...

Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Sep 29, 2004, 7:01 AM
Post #27 of 95 (2023 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be my guess that the new Strong will look amazingly like a bigger Quasar. That's pure speculation on my part, but if it doesn't then they are really not listening to the consumer......at all. When Strong announced "the revelation that will change the tandem industry" at the last PIA (the rent/lease-per-jump program), I just shook my head.

skydiveoc  (D 12721)

Sep 29, 2004, 7:49 AM
Post #28 of 95 (2015 views)
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Re: [Liemberg] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

People may argue of the cheaper cost of the racer and strong rigs in comparison to Sigma. Owning both Strong and Sigma systems, I can say that the replacement costs and wear is greater with Strong, quickly using up that savings in about 2 years. Stong bags are overengineered and pricey while Sigmas are...bags. Ive replaced 4 Strong bags in 2 years at $140 per while no Sigma bags at $60 per. Seems to be more wear points on the strongs than on Sigma resulting in more maintanence costs.

My vote for canopies is Sigma then Icarus. Everything else seems dated now.

OnYourBack  (D 25190)

Sep 29, 2004, 8:53 AM
Post #29 of 95 (2005 views)
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Re: [skydiveoc] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm Vector and Sigma because that is what the DZ owns. I haven't had the opportunity to jump Strong but would if thats what the DZ had. I'm curious, is there anyone who believes that Strong is the way to go? I may have missed one but all of the posts seem fairly skewed against Strong rigs. Are they bad or just not quite as good? What are some specific things bad about them other than the maintenance of bags just mentioned?

riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 30, 2004, 9:51 AM
Post #30 of 95 (1954 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It would be my guess that the new Strong will look amazingly like a bigger Quasar. That's pure speculation on my part, but if it doesn't then they are really not listening to the consumer

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
Eleven years ago I told them to develop a new tandem container based on the Quasar.

Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Sep 30, 2004, 11:27 AM
Post #31 of 95 (1941 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Last summer our Twin Otter visited a DZ that uses Strong rigs. I'm sitting on the bench wearing my Sigma, and as the Strong guys stand up to walk down the aisle, I almost grabbed their arms to tell them their shit was falling out of the main containers. It took me a second to realize that's what the rigs normally look like. Nasty!LaughLaugh

It is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs. I have never gotten out with stuff hanging out of my main container. When I got my rating five years ago our oldest rigs had main flaps that were too short to tuck in (that style has been retired or updated at their eightyear). Nonetheless I never allowed that to be an excuse to not tuck the drogue in.

bclark  (D 22626)

Oct 3, 2004, 7:44 PM
Post #32 of 95 (1892 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
It is not what the rigs normally look like. It is what they look like when worn by lazy TMs.

I agree 100%. Strongs do not look like shit if you take a little time to clean them up and stow excess bridle / mud flap where you should.

foreverfree  (D 17240)

Oct 24, 2004, 3:48 PM
Post #33 of 95 (1790 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Good thinking!

LukeOliver  (F 600)

Jan 31, 2005, 2:06 AM
Post #34 of 95 (1655 views)
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Re: [foreverfree] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Rated on Vector/Sigma/Eclipse/Atom/Strong.

Short'n'shiny:

Vector: A nice baseline.

Sigma: current king of the heap. Remove "out of sequence" and see how much simpler the decision tree looks. Enjoy - pull a golf ball and give both thumbs up to the camera. Does take a little longer to close. The best student harness in the business - if you're not using them, you're doing your customers a disservice.

Eclipse: Very Vector. Unsure about additional drogue release on cutaway, avoiding having third parties in my drogue whilst I decide. Tuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro. Long lasting.

Strong: Seemingly unsuited to small framed TIs (I'm 167cm) - big, I tend to float in the harness, and difficult to get any value out of the side attachments. Have survived an out of sequence, possibly two (the second one was at night and not videoed). Don't understand why the two pin mod isn't mandated. Two pin reserve prone to pin displacement in a way the others are not. Drogue mounting point makes for good heap up position in droguefall - useful for outside cam, pointless for handcam. [judge]Not for me any more.[/judge]

L.

Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jan 31, 2005, 9:47 AM
Post #35 of 95 (1627 views)
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Re: [LukeOliver] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Tuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro.

I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did.

Sigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard.

Derek

AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 31, 2005, 9:58 AM
Post #36 of 95 (1623 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Sigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard.

I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system.

However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA).

mfrese  (D 20145)

Jan 31, 2005, 10:10 AM
Post #37 of 95 (1619 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

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I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem."

Well, I worked at SMB for most of 2003 and through March of 2004, and my ears are still stinging from the riser covers on their rigs! Wink

On the other side of the coin, I've got a great picture of me with my Dad on a tandem with a Sigma, we're at line stretch, about a 45 degree angle as we're getting pulled upright...and the riser covers are still closed. Smile Thank you RWS!

riggerrob  (D 14840)

Feb 1, 2005, 10:42 AM
Post #38 of 95 (1564 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Sigmas are the only way to go. Anything else is sub standard.

I'm really wanting to see what Aerodyne has in the works for their new tandem system they're working on. I know that their canopy offering (A2) really impressed me, the first tandem canopy I've jumped besides the Sigma 370 that I would gladly jump or buy to put my own system together. So I have high hopes for their forth coming system.

However, they're going have to work really hard to make it compare or surpass the Sigma system, especially with the new updates for the Sigma (some introduced at this years PIA and the Skyhook released at the last PIA).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Expect Aerodyne's tandem container to look like an ATOM, seeing as how Aerodyne hired the best designers from Parachutes de France.

rustywardlow  (D 18809)

Feb 1, 2005, 12:55 PM
Post #39 of 95 (1545 views)
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Re: [foreverfree] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

They ,who ever they are. say that if you start out on a Strong you will like a Strong and if you start out on a Vector you will like the Vector. I am rated in Strong, Vector, Sigma and Eclipse. Personally I can't stand the Strong it feels like your wearing a bale of hay instead of a skydiving rig and I hate getting Drouge slammed every time it opens plus it is poorly designed with a bunch of band-aid put in place to solve their proplems. The Vector is nice ( I own one ) but it can be slightly harder to put on and it is kind of stiff. The Eclipse is much easier to put on because the leg straps are longer and I do like the way the handles are stowed, but everyone knows that the Eclipse is a close copy to the Vector. Main preferance of course is the Sgma. It looks like a skydiving rig, you don't have to worry about drouge release handles coming unstowed and just by looking at it you can tell that a lot of time and thought went into it's design

NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Feb 1, 2005, 4:24 PM
Post #40 of 95 (1526 views)
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Re: [rustywardlow] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I hate getting Drouge slammed

What's that mean?

I like Strong. Of course, I don't have much of a frame of reference since that's all I've ever jumped. You're right about it feeling like a bale of hay though. I guess I just assumed all tandem rigs felt like that.

Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 1, 2005, 4:28 PM
Post #41 of 95 (1527 views)
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Re: [NSEMN8R] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Try a Sigma. It will give you a frame of reference. Of course you'll never look at a Strong the same way againWink

Derek

rustywardlow  (D 18809)

Feb 2, 2005, 12:04 PM
Post #42 of 95 (1485 views)
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Re: [NSEMN8R] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

What is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag.
With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated.
Hope this answers your questions.

NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Feb 3, 2005, 4:42 PM
Post #43 of 95 (1434 views)
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Re: [rustywardlow] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What is drouge slam? Drouge slam can happen on any tandem rig if the kill line is not mantained properly. On the Vector's, Sigma's and the Eclipse as soon as you pull the drouge release handle the drouge collapses and the drag from the bridle and the collapsed drouge pull the bag out of the container. This is commonly refered to as the trap door and makes for a very smooth and soft transion from freefall to canopy deployment. With a Strong rig the drouge does not collapse until the canopy is out of the bag which results in drouge slam every time you pull the drouge release. Which is that sudden jerk that you feel until everything starts to slow down once the canopy is finally out of the bag.
With the invention of the Super drouge this proplem has been virtualy elimintated.
Hope this answers your questions.

Yeah. Thanks.

But, what's a super drouge? I've never noticed Drouge Slam so maybe I've been jumping one, but I've never heard it called that.

livendive  (D 21415)

Feb 8, 2005, 3:00 PM
Post #44 of 95 (1358 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Tuck tabs really give me the gripes - they can dislocate in freefall and beat the crap out of your ears. Have tried many things to stop it, but had me wishing for Vector velcro.

I asked Jesse about the riser covers (and the reserve ripcords being too short, zero slack), he said, "our Eclipse's don't have that problem." Um, thanks. That's really helpful. He said he would take a look at the ripcords, but never did.

I think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig.

Blues,
Dave

Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 8, 2005, 4:14 PM
Post #45 of 95 (1354 views)
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Re: [livendive] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

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I think the primary reason I like the Eclipse rig is the price and the Icarus mains. I HATE the tuck tab riser covers. I'd say they come undone and try to beat me about the face on 80% of my jumps on that rig.

For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran.

Derek

skydiverek  (C 840)

Feb 8, 2005, 4:55 PM
Post #46 of 95 (1348 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran.

Why? Just curious what the benefit would be...

Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 8, 2005, 7:03 PM
Post #47 of 95 (1341 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron.

Derek

AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 8, 2005, 7:17 PM
Post #48 of 95 (1339 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

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Less bulk, less weight, less chance of bag strip. Downside they don't last as long as Dacron.

What about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock?

I don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong.

Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 8, 2005, 7:33 PM
Post #49 of 95 (1337 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What about the Dacron's ability to stretch to take a shock?

True, but I have a bunch of jumps on Icarus and the openings were fine.

Quote:
I don't believe there's been any instances of bag strip when the recommended stowing proceedures were used (tandem tube stows on the locking stows, wide tandem bands on the rest). Although I could very well be wrong.

I don't know of any instances either, but witht he lighter lines, it decreases the risk (and the proper stow bands & size like you mentioned).

Derek

kissrg  (D 225000)

Feb 9, 2005, 4:00 AM
Post #50 of 95 (1319 views)
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Re: [Hooknswoop] STRONG vs SIGMA vs VECTOR vs ECLIPSE TANDEM RIGS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
For the price, the Sigma is hard to beat. It may cost more up front, but is cheaper to maintain. It is a much nicer rig. If I was buying tandem rigs, I'd buy Sigmas w/ PD-R's and Icarus mains. I might put PD's Sigma mains in them if they lined them w/ Vectran.

So would you prefer the Sigma main vs. Icarus if it was lined w/ Vectran?

Is the line type so important for you or the canopies are so closed to each other?

Robert

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