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Stupid things I have done

 

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Thijs  (C License)

Aug 26, 2012, 2:44 AM
Post #551 of 657 (3707 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

On jump 206. Couldn't fly back to the DZ under canopy, so decided to land in a field close to the dz. Overshot the field and landed on a road next to the field, just before a big corn field.

Wanted to make a turn to land into the wind (which had dropped completely by the way) instead of landing down wind with probably half a mile of clear terrain to land in.

Watch out for variable wind conditions...
Attachments: stupidthings.jpg (158 KB)


Ron

Aug 26, 2012, 5:39 AM
Post #552 of 657 (3686 views)
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Re: [Thijs] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On jump 206. Couldn't fly back to the DZ under canopy, so decided to land in a field close to the dz. Overshot the field and landed on a road next to the field, just before a big corn field.

Wanted to make a turn to land into the wind (which had dropped completely by the way) instead of landing down wind with probably half a mile of clear terrain to land in.

Watch out for variable wind conditions...

Nothing you wrote was 'stupid'. Stupid would of been trying to make it back or turning low to get into the wind.

You made small errors, not stupid mistakes.


klippetop  (C 2629)

Aug 29, 2012, 1:47 AM
Post #553 of 657 (3529 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Really great thread. Learning alot from it. Can see that i need to focus way more on safety.

Did AFF in a different country where I almost (but not enterily) understood the language. Alot of times I was thinking that this sounded really important, but I didn't really understand it. Took me a whole day to get that a situation where the pilot is on the floor in the plane, can result in somebody ripping up the plane, because the instructor was talking about the PC and not the actual pilot. Doh!!

#1 jump. at VOSS norway without radio. Was kinda oblivious to the whole canopy ride thing. Just wanted to jump out an airplane. Started landing pattern at about the double altitude that I was supposed to. Overshot like crazy. Saw powerlines and thought fuck. Turned 90 and landed uphill in complete sidewind. Luckily did PLC and it didnt hurt too bad.

#30 About a month ago. Still student. In a hurry to get to plane. Got gear-checkout from instructor.
While waiting in line to get on, the instructor comes running out from the clubhouse and checks my cypress, because he forgot that. It occurs to me that I didn't check it myself and it was the first lift of the day with that rental rig.
Learned that I really need to check my own gear and not rely on everybody else.

I love this sport, and I love that I'm completely responsible for my own safety (soon anyway). Here stupid things have consequenses. To quote my AFF instructor: "Remember! It's not complicated.. But it's important.."

BS


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Dec 2, 2013, 10:54 AM
Post #554 of 657 (3042 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Bumping because this one is some fun reading and it's been a while since the last updates.

I haven't contributed anything in a while. Truth be told it's been a (relatively) stupid-free few years (mostly because the more time I spend in this sport, the more conservative I get in a lot of ways!), though I definitely have a couple to share.

Late 2008, I had about 400ish jumps and was invited to go on a friend's 500th jump, a 16-way sunset jump at a dropzone that shall remain nameless. He paid for extra altitude for the jump as well. While we were waiting to load I remember thinking "wow, it's pretty dark already - I'd be really surprised if we get extra altitude." Well, we did. Unsure That turned out to be my first night jump. Fortunately, the skydive itself was an excellent one, with the exit chunk coming off nicely and the formation building clean with no one out or low. The DZ did turn on lights in the landing area, but the whole canopy ride was super-sketchy.

September 2013, Jump 1200ish, at Nationals during the 10-way competition. I'd been jumping at SDC all week (10-way was my third event) so I'd gotten pretty comfortable with the landing area and patterns. I'd already had a couple of uneventful off landings during the event (still on the airport, but in the grass strips near the corn fields at either end of the runway). That day, winds were high (within the competition wind limits, but on the high side) but steady all day, landing to the south. Winds picked up out of the west so I when I turned onto my base leg I realized I'd gone too far east and couldn't get back to the main landing area, so I picked a grassy strip near the road and turned south. Unfortunately that meant the winds were coming over a corn field and tree and when I flared, the tree stole all my air and dropped me straight down. I'm lucky that I wasn't hurt worse - I knocked my head a bit (fortunately no concussion - just a headache for a bit) and had a minor whiplash injury to my neck. Got myself in a bad spot, and didn't even think about the impact of the turbulence off of the tree/corn.


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Dec 2, 2013, 3:57 PM)


Ron

Dec 2, 2013, 1:12 PM
Post #555 of 657 (2961 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Funny that this thread came back up... I did something incredibly stupid this weekend.

So on a 16 way comp jump I track just a bit further than normal since there seems to be people all over the sky. I throw out and as I sit up, I can see my canopy is already in line twists even before it opens. I try to turn out of it before it opens, but the damn thing opened and started to dive. I grabbed handles and started pealing the Velcro..... And the canopy stopped diving. I looked at the ground and I was high enough, so I started kicking out of it. About 1700 feet I thought, I should really just get rid of this, but went back to kicking. I was clear by 1500 feet and had to land a bit off the DZ.

It would be easy to say that since it ended well and I knew where I was that it was a good call. But honestly, it was stupid. I had already made the choice to chop and I should of just gone with it. And while I don't mind chopping at 1500 feet (done much lower) it is this kind of thinking that gets people lower than they can survive.

New rule for me: Once I decide to chop - I am just going to do it.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Dec 3, 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #556 of 657 (2769 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
Funny that this thread came back up... I did something incredibly stupid this weekend.

So on a 16 way comp jump I track just a bit further than normal since there seems to be people all over the sky. I throw out and as I sit up, I can see my canopy is already in line twists even before it opens. I try to turn out of it before it opens, but the damn thing opened and started to dive. I grabbed handles and started pealing the Velcro..... And the canopy stopped diving. I looked at the ground and I was high enough, so I started kicking out of it. About 1700 feet I thought, I should really just get rid of this, but went back to kicking. I was clear by 1500 feet and had to land a bit off the DZ.

It would be easy to say that since it ended well and I knew where I was that it was a good call. But honestly, it was stupid. I had already made the choice to chop and I should of just gone with it. And while I don't mind chopping at 1500 feet (done much lower) it is this kind of thinking that gets people lower than they can survive.

New rule for me: Once I decide to chop - I am just going to do it.

It is always a bad idea to attempt rigging in the sky.

Sparky


Boogers

Dec 3, 2013, 1:10 PM
Post #557 of 657 (2737 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
New rule for me: Once I decide to chop - I am just going to do it.

I don't think that's an good ironclad rule with no exceptions...

Certainly, if you have a malfunction and decide to chop it, and nothing changes, then by all means chop it.

But if you decide to chop it, and while reaching for the handles things get better, then you can do a split second re-evaluation of the situation.

Of course you don't want to spend too much precious time on this re-evaluation. But we should always be open to new courses of action, if things improve, or get worse, and not abide by one and only one action, no matter what. We should be dynamically aware of what is transpiring, and always flexible in action.


(This post was edited by Boogers on Dec 3, 2013, 1:12 PM)


Ron

Dec 3, 2013, 1:29 PM
Post #558 of 657 (2713 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Boogers wrote:
Ron wrote:
New rule for me: Once I decide to chop - I am just going to do it.

I don't think that's an good ironclad rule with no exceptions...

Certainly, if you have a malfunction and decide to chop it, and nothing changes, then by all means chop it.

But if you decide to chop it, and while reaching for the handles things get better, then you can do a split second re-evaluation of the situation.

Of course you don't want to spend too much precious time on this re-evaluation. But we should always be open to new courses of action, if things improve, or get worse, and not abide by one and only one action, no matter what. We should be dynamically aware of what is transpiring, and always flexible in action.

A fair comment, but many times a person gets wrapped up in trying to fix the problem and dies before they fix it. One sure way to prevent that it to not change your course of action once you start.

I had stupid reasons for not chopping. And while I was not so low that I would not have been in my safety zone, it was easy to see how it could of turned bad.... For example, what would have happened if the canopy right before I had it out of twists decided to start diving again? What if I had not put the handle back on the velcro very well? Then I would be low, spinning, and looking for a handle.

In the end, it worked out. But I was lower than most people would be happy about. And I have read enough incident reports where people died having *almost* fixed the problem.

Sparky's comment is spot on, IMO... Don't try to do in air rigging.

In the end, I am quite happy with my new rule. You will have to make your own.


WILDBILLAQR  (D 29042)

Dec 3, 2013, 10:04 PM
Post #559 of 657 (2591 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron, outstanding thread btw!
I was on a coach jump...we were last to leave...saw how far out we were...gave the finger(pull) about 1000 ft early. Saw my student open...then pitched at 4000. @ 1800 ...my canopy opened. Lucky it was facing towards the DZ. Only 8 line twist (on video) cleared @ 1300 and wasn't spinning. I made 1turn @100ft to final. The opening was so hard my ringsite broke my nose and hip ring brused my back. Should have hit reserve at 3 ish. Kids if you feel it going to poo...don't wait!!!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Dec 3, 2013, 10:53 PM
Post #560 of 657 (2580 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
But if you decide to chop it, and while reaching for the handles things get better, then you can do a split second re-evaluation of the situation.


When I dump I look up and I canít land it, itís gone. No second guessing and no screwing with it. I lived with that rule for 30 years. Several others broke that rule and are dead.

Sparky


potatoman  (Student)

Dec 3, 2013, 11:52 PM
Post #561 of 657 (2593 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Long night....noob prompts me the next morning he wants his opening filmed. So, we plan 2way flat, and at 5500, I will just go underneath him, and he can deploy at 5k.

battled to get to him after a long seperated exit. Showed him going underneath now, just below 5k. Then, as I go down below, he smiles at me, taking in the nice cam guy underneath him, which he has never seen. SO, I sit there waiting to film the opening, later pointing at him. alas he opens, with a serious line twist. Me, I keep on filming a bit more, then turnaround to find myself at 2.4G. Snivel, and open at 1.5. Outlanding.

Problems here. Late night, audible was in full face helmet, never bothered to move to cam helmet, dumb student not doing his thing on time, me not making the call to just deploy and screw the footage. STUPID.


DeeBeeGee  (C License)

Dec 4, 2013, 2:32 AM
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Re: [potatoman] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Filming openings reeeaally sucks you in.
I fell for this despite being totally aware of the danger and even joked about it before the jump especially as the canopy i was filming was a safire 2 but we planned a 5k deployment anticipating it would snivel to 4k. Stupidly didn't factor in that I would not also be at 4k at that point! Flipped over and saw I was at about 2.2k, turns out I had taken my audible out of my helmet to go in the tunnel. Not quite a NSTIWTIWGTD moment but ended up with one of those off landings when you're glad you didn't downsize too rapidly


NvyZero  (D License)

Dec 4, 2013, 6:19 AM
Post #563 of 657 (2467 views)
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]Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

I know I have a few but the one that pops in my head right now was the time I took the pilots girlfriend low because I had my head up my ass. I had 300-400 jumps and she had quite a few less then me. So I felt responsible for her safety. So the pilots gf was learning how to freefly and I had jumped with her a few times to help her get her sit right. On this jump it was a sunset load we are getting out north of the dz and we start sit flying she's kicking ass and I'm having fun flying circles around her and docking. I never once looked at my altittude. Eventually my internal clock said hey fuck wad this about the time you pull I look over says 3k I turn track while looking down (ground is getting pretty big) 2 secs wave pull fully open at 1.5k I look down and right after opening I don't see her, I look down and left and sure enough she's sniveling right below me. I made it back to the dz she landed off. I talked to her when she got back and asked her where she was open by she said 1k and she was very shaken up. I apologized and everything was cool. Except I was anticipating an ass chewing from her pilot bf bc for a while I liked to and was known to pull low. Never got one, I'm pretty sure he chewed her out. The next day I saw her buy a dytter. (I had one just wasn't in the helmet I was using.)


theonlyski  (D License)

Dec 4, 2013, 6:26 AM
Post #564 of 657 (2464 views)
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Re: [NvyZero] ]Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

I did the AFF course with my Safire2 with the over sized slider... that damn thing snivels for 1k at least.

There was once or twice that I was open and turned to my downwind leg.Unsure


mereanarchy  (A License)

Dec 4, 2013, 12:04 PM
Post #565 of 657 (2351 views)
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Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

thankfully, although I have made some mistakes, thankfully I actually had trouble coming up with something? The one thing I would change so far that I have done...

As a student, changed canopies on my 3500 h&p, which was jump 18ish? Had been on a Navigator, switched to a Sabre2 one size smaller. Because it was a subterminal deployment, and a new canopy, it took longer than I was expecting to open. I had my eyes darting back and forth between the opening canopy and my altimeter, hands on my cutaway handle, willing the stupid thing to open.

In reality, there was no problem on opening, but note to self, when downsizing, give myself a LITTLE more altitude to get used to the snivel. :)

On the upside, I was proud of myself for how alert i was to my altitude and my handles!


Boogers

Dec 4, 2013, 3:00 PM
Post #566 of 657 (2287 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

mjosparky wrote:
Quote:
But if you decide to chop it, and while reaching for the handles things get better, then you can do a split second re-evaluation of the situation.

When I dump I look up and I canít land it, itís gone. No second guessing and no screwing with it. I lived with that rule for 30 years. Several others broke that rule and are dead.

Fair enough. But sometimes "can't land it" is not clear cut. There have been a number of times I've had minor problems where the first instinct is always to go for the cutaway handles. But then, upon quick reflection, that minor tear in the fabric really isn't a big deal. It's flying straight, it's stable, it flares okay - I'll land it! The first instinct is not always the only necessary course of action.


ridebmxbikes  (D 33588)

Dec 4, 2013, 4:18 PM
Post #567 of 657 (2245 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Clouds were sketchy one day and we decide to go for it anyway. We put together a 3-way hybrid. There's a s&ta spotting, apparently he recognized a pond across a field from the dz. I'm in the third group getting out. With another 3-way right behind us. Everybody goes and as soon as I jump I see nothing but clouds. We build the hybrid and entervthe clouds at 8k feet, we break at 5k and I start tracking( still in the clouds) and realize I can't see, don't know where Im going and don't know where anybody is at so I stop tracking. I was gonna pull at 3.5k but decided it would be best to get out the clouds first. So Im burning past 2k and start getting scared so I decided to pull at 1800. As my canopy starts inflating I start breaking out of the cloud at 1300. Ended up the s&ta really did have a good spot because I made a turn, entered the pattern and landed. Weird thing for ten people to get out before you and you are the first to land. Oh yeah, only had about 70 jumps at the time.


Ron

Dec 5, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Fair enough. But sometimes "can't land it" is not clear cut. There have been a number of times I've had minor problems where the first instinct is always to go for the cutaway handles. But then, upon quick reflection, that minor tear in the fabric really isn't a big deal. It's flying straight, it's stable, it flares okay - I'll land it! The first instinct is not always the only necessary course of action.

The problem is that while you debate the issue.... You are losing time. Take a peak at the incident reports at how many people chop too low to survive. Do you think those people made a choice to chop that low, or do you think they were so busy deciding what to do that they ended up low?

History has shown that lots of people smarter than me have ridden an issue too low and then chopped.


Boogers

Dec 5, 2013, 2:45 PM
Post #569 of 657 (2092 views)
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
Quote:
Fair enough. But sometimes "can't land it" is not clear cut. There have been a number of times I've had minor problems where the first instinct is always to go for the cutaway handles. But then, upon quick reflection, that minor tear in the fabric really isn't a big deal. It's flying straight, it's stable, it flares okay - I'll land it! The first instinct is not always the only necessary course of action.

The problem is that while you debate the issue.... You are losing time. Take a peak at the incident reports at how many people chop too low to survive. Do you think those people made a choice to chop that low, or do you think they were so busy deciding what to do that they ended up low?

History has shown that lots of people smarter than me have ridden an issue too low and then chopped.

Certainly. If you're out of time, make your decision and go for it. I'm talking about if you still have a few seconds before cutaway altitude. Don't just blindly go for the first instinct cutaway option. Keep evaluating, keep thinking, stay flexible, use your time to determine the BEST course of action, not just the FIRST course of action.


Ron

Dec 5, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Boogers wrote:
Ron wrote:
Quote:
Fair enough. But sometimes "can't land it" is not clear cut. There have been a number of times I've had minor problems where the first instinct is always to go for the cutaway handles. But then, upon quick reflection, that minor tear in the fabric really isn't a big deal. It's flying straight, it's stable, it flares okay - I'll land it! The first instinct is not always the only necessary course of action.

The problem is that while you debate the issue.... You are losing time. Take a peak at the incident reports at how many people chop too low to survive. Do you think those people made a choice to chop that low, or do you think they were so busy deciding what to do that they ended up low?

History has shown that lots of people smarter than me have ridden an issue too low and then chopped.

Certainly. If you're out of time, make your decision and go for it. I'm talking about if you still have a few seconds before cutaway altitude. Don't just blindly go for the first instinct cutaway option. Keep evaluating, keep thinking, stay flexible, use your time to determine the BEST course of action, not just the FIRST course of action.

Last attempt... Do you know how many people thought they had time and died thinking that?


pchapman  (D 1014)

Dec 5, 2013, 6:13 PM
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Re: [Ron] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron wrote:
Last attempt... Do you know how many people thought they had time and died thinking that?

Still, I go for the idea of emphasizing that one can easily get oneself too low, so one screws around with a canopy only if one is absolutely sure one has altitude.

Screwing around with a canopy is normal -- trying to pop out a tension knot, checking controllability with a small tear, trying to fix a jammed steering toggle, whatever.

Otherwise one might as well say something like, "Never drive your car in winter! People have died on icy roads!" or, "Never skateboard! People have done dumb things on them and gotten killed!"

(Come to think of it, I did go to a memorial service for a skydiver who died in a skateboard related accident....)

Just because some people have screwed up at a task doesn't mean nobody should ever try it again. We have to look at what the risks are, whether they are acceptable, and whether some mitigation is possible.

Even though it is so easy to get sucked low, it is way too strict to suggest one never try to fix certain malfunction-like situations.

Let's get back to stuff that really is stupid...


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Dec 5, 2013, 8:43 PM
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Re: Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

I went to an aviation safety lecture given by Rod Machado at the Oshkosh airshow this year. Rod is a very engaging humorous speaker, an experienced CFI and among other things has a degree in Psychology.

He asked the audience when is the best time to make important aviation decisions such as weather, approach minimums, and so on. The answer was, "on the ground", because in a high stress situation your cognitive ability is impaired.

How does this translate to skydiving? Simple really. Decide what your altitude is for a cutaway on the ground and then the only decision you have to make in the air is "are we there yet", not.... "ah just a little more and I can fix this." I have personally been on this slippery slope and rode line twists from 3000' to 1600', cutting away and ended up in the saddle at 1200'. Frown

So, for me the decision now is "Am I at 2300' feet?" If the answer is yes then cut away. For someone else it might be a different altitude, but the key is to make this decision on the ground and then in a high stress situation all you have to do is make a yes/no decision.

Just my 2 cents worth.


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Dec 5, 2013, 10:38 PM
Post #573 of 657 (1957 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Boogers wrote:
mjosparky wrote:
Quote:
But if you decide to chop it, and while reaching for the handles things get better, then you can do a split second re-evaluation of the situation.

When I dump I look up and I canít land it, itís gone. No second guessing and no screwing with it. I lived with that rule for 30 years. Several others broke that rule and are dead.

Fair enough. But sometimes "can't land it" is not clear cut. There have been a number of times I've had minor problems where the first instinct is always to go for the cutaway handles. But then, upon quick reflection, that minor tear in the fabric really isn't a big deal. It's flying straight, it's stable, it flares okay - I'll land it! The first instinct is not always the only necessary course of action.

That's different - depending on the experience of the jumper. I admit the situation you describe is a grey area. I can see how you would reflexively reach for the handles while consciously deciding that the canopy is landable after all.

But noone should continue to fuck around with what should have been a definite chop for someone of their experience. Let's take Ron's original malfunction as an example: spinning, twists and getting low. Many novice and intermediate jumpers should have cut that away as soon as the canopy started spinning. Very experienced jumpers could try somewhat longer, if current on that canopy. But they too shouldn't go below their personal hard deck.


Snowcrash  (C 24662)

Dec 5, 2013, 11:07 PM
Post #574 of 657 (1949 views)
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Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

Great thread, thanks for bumping it!

Well, with only 90 odd jumps I guess just the fact that I'm skydiving is probably stupid, but anyway...

Late this summer me and another sub-100 jumps friend decided to try a nice and easy track jump together. The plan was simple; we go about 10 good seconds off line of flight, the turn either up or down line of flight depending on where we end up in the load order. We break early (something like 6000) and then I go another few seconds off line of flight and he slightly back towards it (in and of itself probably a stupid idea, but fortunately none that he had to pay for...).

Anyway, the load turned in to one of those confused ones, which I guess everyone has been on from time to time. After a lot of back and forth, we get a second pass, a few demos having gotten off on the first one. We go last on the second pass and execute the jump, perfectly according to plan. The only problem is that despite having all the time in the world we were way too exited to get out, donít check the spot and then just go. We are last out, so: off line of flight, back down wind, break at 6000 and I continue further off line of flight. Come opening time I look down and realize "hey, this patch of wood looks different, I've never been here before". Turns out we got the green light way, way too early on the second pass. Luckily I had a straight run of open, nicely plowed fields all the way from where I was hanging and back to the dropzone. More or less headwind all the way so I just rode it down, ended up landing 50 meters shy of the grass.

So, lesson learned; always check the spot! A quick look wonít take more than a second and I'm sure we spent that time high-fiving each other before we went anyway.


Polorutz  (B 40005)

Dec 6, 2013, 2:05 AM
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Re: [Snowcrash] Stupid things I have done [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I can add the first mistake I've made here too!

I just got my A license and was doing my first 2 way without an instructor. The guy I was jumping with had a lot more experience than I did but is not a trainer in any way.

Pilot orders a 15 sec delay, the AFF instructor jumping before us (he was traininig another instructor, not a student) says to wait more like 19 secs as he'll be moving a lot.

I was in control of the exit and counted way too fast. Dive went well, we did 4 points and then tracked away from each other. Unfortunately for me, that meant tracking along the jump run.

I opened and landed. The AFF instructor gave me a talking to, apparently we exited too fast and I ended up opening 100 feet away from him and he wasn't happy.

Things I've learned, count slowly and make sure you follow the plan. Don't track towards jump run. Buy beer.


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