Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging: Re: [ufk22] Vector closing sequence: Edit Log

ChrisD  (No License)

Aug 2, 2013, 8:19 AM

Views: 9639
Re: [ufk22] Vector closing sequence

ufk22 wrote:
Sorry, but there's nothing in that old post about NOT using a washer, just talks about inspecting .

This is what I'm referring to in the "Old Post" I take this as that individual isn't using a washer either...
I'm not using the washer with the spectra loop as it's thick enough that the knot isn't going to go through the grommet, but those of you who have been using your loops awhile definitely need to check this one out.

I want to thank you for your concern for my safety, what you don't know is that the grommet on my V3 is small. Small grommets are a pain in the ass for the manufacturer to install. In fact installing grommets is a pain for any sized grommet. In fact I have been experimenting with not using a grommet / flap for the base of the main closing loop and have been looking at using a double ended finger trapped and sewn loop. That way all I need would be a sewn loop tape that I can pass the closing loop thru and the closing loop would pass thru its other closed end. But that is just me. If there was away to get rig of grommets alltoghter??? Considering the fact that the main canopy is what determines the tension and its' relationship with a properly sized container. I want to get rid of Cypress washers period and find a better way. If fixed length loops are the way to do this then so be it, but there are consequences...

This is akin to the idea of passing the bridal thru itself and the bag so that we can eliminate the rapide link. But then we get into the speed difference of changing a larkshead v metal link issue....

The problem is when other's see something and try to replicate it with out an understanding of the whole picture. Understand that just about any knot can pull thru a grommet if:

The knot is too small. (How do you tell what is or isn't too small.)

The grommet is too large.

Pulling on a loop with too much force.

(You have seen the knot used on the "Cypress Washer? Have you ever seen a Cypress washer with cracks in it?)

My concern with starting this was to illustrate what I and more than a few others see as a potential problem with rigs that use a fixed length main closing loop and unknowing individuals start changing stuff. Like the size of their main. Or they unknowingly start adjusting their closing loop and they don't really know all of the parameters and issues with their actions.

I saw a rig that someone had adjusted their closing loop too small, the top flap now is bowed and the rig has indentations that in the very rare case of a out of position deployment I have a concern that the top flap may hang up. I now see many rigs with bowed top flaps. So to me this is a concern that is wide spread and deserving of some attention.

In the other case I saw a packer pack a rig by pulling on the closing loop with the tool, and also by using their feet on the back of the rig. When the rig was tossed to the floor at that moment the loop pulled thru!!! Imagine the look of surprise on everyone's face. Imagine me standing there trying to explain that the loop didn't need to be shortened in the first place, that the manufacturer (sun path products) has a fixed length recommendation. On the other hand everyone also discovered that that RIGGER had neglected to use a washer on that rig. That rig had been in use without a washer for months! No one knew! Because of the decreased tension, at the manufacturers suggested length it worked just fine. (bit of a time bomb in a sense though!!) Until an unknowing packer, who in their opinion, deemed that the loop was too about ironyCrazy.

There is a balance here, do I keep my mouth shut out of fear that some may start a practice that if they are not aware of all of the consequences, may lead them to do something that may not be safe? Or to I point out a trend that rigs, in large numbers have ridiculously high tensions because it is better to be too tight than too loose?

Or is it better that everyone raises their game so to speak, learn something, and set the right tension for your particular rig in the first place?

There are a lot of us, (I stand on the shoulders of giants by the way,) that want our gear to be 100 percent bullet proof. This grommet thing has cost lives in the past. This washer thing has cost lives. I am well aware that knots can pull through washers. I am well aware that knots can slip apart. I am advocating the right materials, the right tension, and the right knot in the right place. I spend a lot of time at this stuff....

Now what the masses do with this is what keeps me up at night....



I want to remind you that the OP's question was how far apart should the grommets be....

(This post was edited by ChrisD on Aug 2, 2013, 8:32 AM)

Edit Log:
Post edited by ChrisD () on Aug 2, 2013, 8:27 AM
Post edited by ChrisD () on Aug 2, 2013, 8:32 AM

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