Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions: Re: [tvandijck] Insurance brokers warning to DZO's/Plane owners: Edit Log

robinheid  (D 5533)

Sep 12, 2012, 7:10 PM

Views: 8592
Re: [tvandijck] Insurance brokers warning to DZO's/Plane owners

In reply to:
In reply to:
Why is it that forcing people to pay for their services before they can jump a wingsuit will somehow make all these current wingsuit instructor gods so much better?

I think this argument fails in the first part a little bit.. I don't think the added bureaucracy forces people to pay for instruction. An instructional rating is like any other rating with the USPA and comes at the cost of approx. 30,= to renew on a yearly bases. If you currently hold a 'coach' rating you already pay this, and hence having the extra "WSI" checkbox does not add any additional cost. If you do not hold a 'coach' rating, you should not be coaching in the first place.

Secondary, if you are the coach, you make the price for teaching others, if you wish to teach others entirely for free, the rating does not change that in any way, and if you wish to ask 500USD per jump, then you are free to do so too.. I myself coach people merely for slot typically, and often I forget to ask even that, I don't feel I have to suddenly change my price if the rating becomes official.

Sure getting the rating may be a bit of an investment depending on which "Examiner" you go to, but there again it is the examiner that sets the price, not USPA, and hence if I were to be an examiner at some point I'm free to continue offering my service for slot and continue to forget and ask about that.

In reply to:
Why do you need a bureaucracy in order to tell people to not open their wings until they're one second out of the airplane? A whuffo can do it, or the loader, or the pilot, or the last non-wingsuit people out of the plane.

All you supporters of this new bureaucracy talk a grand glorious and convoluted game and not one of you has yet answered this really simple question.


This is somewhat of a point I'm struggling with too, I'm not at all in favor of adding additional bureaucracy, however it seems that within the USPA as an organization there is no other way to standardize training methods but to make a rating for it. There simply is no other procedure for attaining standardization. And we as a community can't even agree on anything let alone a standard training method, so lets just say that "doing it ourselves" is not really a strong argument considering our past with doing things "ourselves". I've never seen a community with so much drama.

So why standardize? well, in my opinion
- if all coaches did teach the same material it becomes easier for those coaches to exchange experiences.

- Furthermore each new wingsuiter can assume a certain level of quality, just like going to mcdonalds always gets you the same burger. (although admittedly that may be a poor example depending on whether you like mcdonalds or not).

- if everyone teaches the same material we can fall back on that material by way of a checklist to assure you have covered everything. For some of you it may be so natural because you have taught to 100's of student, but for others like me that may not be the case. Having reference material is a good way to prevent missing something. I often refer back to the SIM and AFF manuals to refresh my mind before I take on a student.

- Measuring is a big thing for me too, measuring someones performance is not objective without having something to measure with. Are you good to become a coach or not?

- Accountability: We can be held accountable as a coach for the things we teach, and thus held against higher standards.

All this said, we can start today with making plane loaders make that comment as you suggested, we can start today by having loader look for a sticker on your rig to prevent you from going onto the airplane without a DZ briefing. And we can start today by talking to each other constructively about our training methods and see if we can align them as we claim we're so good at ("we don't need bureaucracy because we can do it perfectly fine ourselves"), and then maybe the USPA doesn't have to step in at all...

Ultimately the USPA is only stepping in because we've been acting like a bunch of little kids. It started with the brand wars, then the grid had and still has it's drama, the next thing we're going to have drama about competitions, all because we're too ego and want to be the first to propose something and get our 15 minute of fame...

Anyway, I guess more puppy poop ;) I'll shut up now...

LOL... no, you're at least thinking about it.

The bottom line here is wingsuit tailstrikes. Solving that issue does not require a training program, an instructor rating, an experienced wingsuiter -- or even a skydiver. The whuffo loader can remind people of this. So can the whuffo manifestor who has wingsuiters sign an additional waiver specifically spelling out their responsibilities as a wingsuiter at that DZ. So can the whuffo pilot whose butt is more on the line than anyone else when an idiot wingsuiter opens his or her wings less than one second out of the plane.

It ain't rocket science, people.


(This post was edited by robinheid on Sep 12, 2012, 9:29 PM)

Edit Log:
Post edited by robinheid () on Sep 12, 2012, 9:29 PM

Search for (options)