Re: [ifell] Article on landing wingsuit w/o parachute
In reply to:
Considering what we now know about the wingsuit/skis combo I would have to go with fantasyland
Perhaps true! Do tell about the learned experiences here - I'd like to see some scientific data. Or is it just a few datapoints from a few different people (who probably each tried just one-ski-model?)
I'm sure many dozens of wingsuit jumpers have already worn regular skiis (including wingsuit BASE jumpers skiing off a cliff, etc, or paraskiing events that began with wingsuit flight), took some off-the-maket brand skiis, with heavy bindings that mess up wingsuit flight, and unsuitable-for-ski-jumping skiis, etc. But that's pretty unscientific. Do we have a scientific study showing a large number of ski models (say 30 different models) of skiis including multiple models of custom ski jumping models and tweaks, lightweight ones too, resulted in super-unstable wingsuit flight, or very bad wingsuit flight profiles, etc? Do not forget that ski jumping skiis are long and wide skis, with lightweight bindings attaching at the toe, for good control of ski angle. Understandably, losing control of skiis while going at high speed through the air, can be fatal. (i.e. wind pushing skiis around, etc). The higher speeds of wingsuit flight, makes the need for custom bindings (derived from ski jump technology) critical, and the wingsuiter needs to train to angle the skiis for maximum lift during normal flight (after exit) and during theoretical approaches to a theoretical ski slope. I could, imagine, that the use of a GPS-powered HUD speedometer and flightangle measurement will be a big help, in exercising/practicing leg/knee/toe angles, and control of the ski angle, during determination of practicalities wearing skiis while flying a wingsuit, and making further custom tweaks to bindings. It will, additionally, also be a necessary endeaviour to hire the same people who work with ski jumping skiis, though some of them will have to overcome the audacity of the idea of landing a wingsuit.
They aren't bulky ski boots, some of them are even lighter-weight than cross-country ski boots (which are much lighter than downhill ski boots). Here's a picture of ski jumping bindings, from the Britannica Encyclopedia: http://media-2.web.britannica.com/...332-004-1CEAFF2F.gif ... However, even this may not be suitable for wingsuit flight, and a different kind of bindings invention is needed. The skiier needs to be able to control the angle of the skiis with their toes, so stiff bindings or stiff ski boots WONT WORK... (so I automatically invalidate scientific tests that don't include tests of flexible ski bindings)
What kind of ski bindings (compact ones, bulky ones), type of skiis, and was it also designed for ski jumping, etc. Was there any custom stability enhancements added to it. (For the purposes of landing a wingsuit, we don't have to be 'legal' in terms of ski jump rules limiting modifications to skiis)?
Don't forget the wingsuit pioneers -- and many who died -- many different wingsuits were very unstable before they became safe enough to be used by the average "career skydiver". If skiis have shown terrible flight stability or flight angle profiles today, then custom skiis, with lightweight auto-stabilizing ski binder technologies, might eventually be safe enough to be worn while wearing a wingsuit at full speeds without significantly hurting the aerodynamics.
REMEMBER!... Look at how much lift that custom-designed skiis give to ski jumpers! There may be limitations to those binders due to the steeper leanforward angles needed during higher speed flight, but if skbinder technology improves, it may then become pratical... (Or maybe even the silly/ridiculous invention of lightweight motorized auto-stabilizing skibinders with ability to bend 90 degrees to parallel of your body) The ski jumpers are almost able to do this nowadays, thanks to technology innovation in ultralight flexible skijumping ski bindings.
I imagine everyday skiis with heavy ski bindings, will be very terrible for wingsuit flight, but don't forget that lightweight skijumping skiis actually give lift to the properly trained persons. The bindings are really flexible. Ski jumping skiis are long and wide skis, with lightweight bindings attaching at the toe, for good control of ski angle. The skijumper can control the angle of the skiis much better than typical downhill skiing skis, or even racing skiis, which is important for stability while flying through the air during ski jump. Some custom enhancements may be needed to be able to get an even-further-forward leanforward than a normal ski jump, and keep it stable.
Look at this image: http://www.cbc.ca/...ials-skijumping.html The skiis are almost parallel to the his body. Ski jumpers use soft toe-adjustable bindings to adjust angle of skiis while flying through the air, there is enough control to make the skiis nearly parallel to his body. With minor enhancements to the ski bindings, it may make a wingsuit landing possible.
You CANNOT do this with regular skiis, like most of the BASE jumpers skiing off a cliff, or during paraskiing. Very few skydivers have ever used these types of bindings during a wingsuit flight, and certainly insufficient data to make it a definitive 'no'...
PLUS....It may take, say, 100, or 500, or even more, skii-equipped wingsuit test flights (with the same wingsuit and ski jumping equipment), with a HUD speedometer/fightanglemeter -- and becoming skilled at doing both and being able to fly the wingsuit angle stably while adjusting ski angle -- and compensating for each other's interference with each other -- before the question can be answered, "Let's land it." (NOTE! The best ski jumpers already compensate skii angles to help the skiis fly them, help lift them further, in midair)
It may have to wait until a future invention, perhaps. Many of us skydivers are doing things that skydivers of 50 years ago thought were impossible. What fabric wingsuit and skijumping-skiis technology in the the next 50 years bring? There might eventually be enough convergence to solve the "3 seconds of terror" problem I just described. If impossible today (for a theoretical attempt in 10 years), eventually, I think the technologies will get slightly closer within 50 years to reduce the risk of the "3 seconds of terror" window I just described. (ski jumpers will become faster/farther, and wingsuits will become slower, etc), I think eventually it is possible that somebody is going to get the idea of experimenting mashing-up these two technologies and skills.
Yes, it may, yes, very well be fantasyland today. However, I still think if it is ever done with a fabric wingsuit, it will be some form of landing on some descendant of skiis and wingsuit, on some sort of ski slope, more likely than other method.
(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Dec 3, 2010, 6:41 PM)
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